No AVtrip at Signature after 1/1/2012 !

[say again]

I buy what's needed, where it's needed. I don't base my fuel load on the type of rewards offered. Just an added perk.

 

[rajflyboy]

Unlike corporate, fractional jets go where the owners want, or where the mother ship dictates. Starting up and repositioning to another FBO for cheaper fuel, only to go back is more costly than higher fuel prices. I believe XO Jet has a presence at Atlantic TEB, like NJA uses First-most of the time.

Say What?

Thats BS

 

[Pervis]

Say What?

Thats BS

My point is we don't go shopping for cheap fuel when we set up for a trip. Our owners/customers sometimes prefer a "non-NJA prefered" FBO, such as Atlantic in TEB. We have no say in where we buy our fuel, although we do have the ability to change the quantity-with reasonable justification.

I regretted the phrase "Unlike corporate" after I reread my post. My assumption is corporate guys have more flexibility in where they purchase their fuel, unless the boss has a particular preference. Frac pilots don't.

 

[clydefastly]

The fact that you are buying fuel at Atlantic in TEB makes me suspect. A quick search of CAA or UVair you will significant savings going to JET or Meridian. Atlantic TEB has consistantly had the highest prices. (unless you want hanger space in the winter, then the high prices might be worth it.)

I have zero problem with ramp fees as a practice. We go to SFO and we get charged $800. Yes it sucks and is expensive but is still cheaper than taking the minimum with their crazy fuel price.

The FBO has overhead and you are using their ramp. Do not like it? Go to Oakland or fly SWA. Corporate jets are expensive.

Like I said before, I don't choose what FBO we got to, the company does. My company has some kind of deal with Atlantic for fuel pricing, as do many other companies with several FBO's. Also I believe that if an FBO (Signature) is the only place on an airport SFO, BOS, BWI, and they have extremely high prices, they are gouging their customers with high ramp fee's and min fuel purchases. I know companies have overhead, but a monopoly is a different thing, and it's bad business. JMHO

 

[glasspilot]

I buy what's needed, where it's needed. I don't base my fuel load on the type of rewards offered. Just an added perk.

I'd bet that's not true and it's certainly not true for most. The rewards even influence me and I don't participate.

Case in point, if I put in a fuel order for 190 gallons that would sort of make me a prick for screwing my FO out of an award. So if I wanted 190 I'd order 200 for the extra reward. See how that's influencing my behavior?

If you needed 500 gallons but knew 550 would top you off and double your rewards wouldn't you do it?

Anybody arguing with me here is in denial or unable to follow simple logic.

 

[Pervis]

Like I said before, I don't choose what FBO we got to, the company does. My company has some kind of deal with Atlantic for fuel pricing, as do many other companies with several FBO's. Also I believe that if an FBO (Signature) is the only place on an airport SFO, BOS, BWI, and they have extremely high prices, they are gouging their customers with high ramp fee's and min fuel purchases. I know companies have overhead, but a monopoly is a different thing, and it's bad business. JMHO

Take consolation in the fact that $hitfinger continues to destroy his current company and is losing market share. MIA is just one example.

 

[clydefastly]

It's not. But the program is designed to influence behavior. Are there times the fuel is cheaper at the Atlantic and you would have tankard anyway? Sure. I have tankard out of Atlantic before for that reason...and remember, I don't do the ABs, I give them ALL to the FO.

But Atlantic has realized that they can do better. They can get the "on the fence" pilot to up the order with their .05 / gal (really .03 or so if you account for lost or unused rewards) kick back program.

If every fuel order came from some government office of fuel planning and all pilot decisions were removed from the equation do you think the Atlantic Buck program would remain? Of course not. They may try to give their kick backs to the government employee, but pilots would be out and that's a fact.

So you see, it's clearly a kick back program designed to influence pilot behavior and the "unethical claim" is certainly defendable. I was not suggesting pilots routinely fly unsafe and out of limits as a result, my point was that it's the extreme and it DOES happen and it a direct result of Atlantics program. I I were in charge of the universe I'd shut it down. But I'm not so enjoy your kick back.


btw, what would some of you union pilots think of a pay structure for pilots that paid for gross weight lifted and didn't respect limits of the plane? Ie, if you take off over gross you're paid more? Would the union guys be behind that?

Well, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree before this thread turns into a political bash fest. I personally don't think we need big brother approving our fuel orders, that seems really extreme to me, but you are entitled to your opinion.

I'm not sure about your union comment, I'm not union, but I would guess that a union wouldn't back a plan that jeopardizes safety. JMHO

 

[CA1900]

Case in point, if I put in a fuel order for 190 gallons that would dot of make me a prick for screwing my FO out of an award.

No, keeping the single reward for yourself instead of giving it to your FO would make you a prick! :laugh:

 

[G100driver]

Like I said before, I don't choose what FBO we got to, the company does. My company has some kind of deal with Atlantic for fuel pricing, as do many other companies with several FBO's. Also I believe that if an FBO (Signature) is the only place on an airport SFO, BOS, BWI, and they have extremely high prices, they are gouging their customers with high ramp fee's and min fuel purchases. I know companies have overhead, but a monopoly is a different thing, and it's bad business. JMHO

I hear you. I realize that this is in the fractional section. I am a part 91 guy and I am responsible for chosing the FBO. I use Atlantic when they have the best price.

As for the FBO's you mentioned I would be willing to bet that the port authorities are putting the screws to Signature as well.

 

[clydefastly]

I hear you. I realize that this is in the fractional section. I am a part 91 guy and I am responsible for chosing the FBO. I use Atlantic when they have the best price.

As for the FBO's you mentioned I would be willing to bet that the port authorities are putting the screws to Signature as well.

thats probably true. I know mass port want all private aircraft to go to bed instead of bos.