No auto brakes on a contaminated RWY?

[FDJ2]

Southwest CEO: Jet In Accident Had No Mechanical Problems

DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
December 9, 2005 9:39 a.m.

--

DALLAS (AP)--The Southwest Airlines (LUV) jet that skidded off a Chicago Midway Airport runway and into a busy intersection showed no mechanical problems the day before the accident, Chief Executive Gary Kelly said Friday.

Kelly told reporters at the airline's Dallas headquarters it's still too early to comment on possible causes of the accident.

The CEO also said that the flight arriving in Chicago last night from Baltimore was the first of the day for the flight crew.

The Boeing 737 was landing in a snowstorm when it skidded off a runway and into a busy Chicago intersection last night. It hit one vehicle and pinned another beneath it, killing a six-year-old boy.

Kelly said the aircraft features an automatic braking system that Southwest prefers its pilots not use. He says Southwest prefers its pilots to slow aircraft manually during landings.

It was the first fatal accident involving a Southwest flight in the carrier's 35-year history. Kelly said 16 people - including two aboard the aircraft - were injured in the accident, and that 13 of those have been treated at Chicago hospitals and released.

 

[Wankel7]

Strange way of putting it....maybe they want them to toss out an anchor?

 

[PCL_128]

I'm surprised the plane even had it. I was under the impression that SWA deactivates the autobrakes just like they do the autothrottles.

 

[NYCPilot]

I'm surprised the plane even had it. I was under the impression that SWA deactivates the autobrakes just like they do the autothrottles.

Whats the benefits of deactivating them, and how do those systems function normally when activated.

 

[PCL_128]

Whats the benefits of deactivating them, and how do those systems function normally when activated.

I would guess that the benefit is reduced maintenance costs, but I'm not sure. You'll have to ask the Boeing drivers about how they work. They don't let us RJ drivers have all those fancy toys.

 

[Spooky 1]

Generally speaking, Boeing recommends an Autobrakes 2 setting for a normal landing. This provides a comfortable steady state deceleration that is sensed by the IRU’s and will modulate the braking according to the amount of reverse used in combination with the brake setting. Carbon brakes last longer with one steady application of brake pressure as opposed to cycling or pumping of the brakes. Don’t have a clue as to what type of brakes SWA has on their fleet, but if I were a betting man, I would guess Carbon would be the preferred choice. All the above info applies to the B757/767/777. I would imagine it is the same on the B737NG as well, but I have been wrong before.

 

[ultrarunner]

Whats the benefits of deactivating them, and how do those systems function normally when activated.

If they're deactivated, they don't need to be maintained. As for how they work...

...you typically have three landing settings and a takeoff or RTO postition.

In the Takeoff or RTO position (different manufactures label differently) when several conditions are met during take off...such as a minimum ground speed and a minimum thrust lever angle, upon aborting the takeoff, the auto brakes will automatically be applied and at a maximum effort.

AB's work similar in the landing mode. Three settings 1, 2, or 3...or min, med or max, again, depending up on the manufacture....

...upon landing, when certain conditions are met, such as nose-wheel spin up, the autobrakes will automatically be appiled at the level selected.

And at a certain speed, upon manually applying the brakes, the AB's are automatically disarmed.

The work really good and can to wonders to reduce takeoff and landing field lenghts.

 

[Gorilla]

I'm surprised the plane even had it. I was under the impression that SWA deactivates the autobrakes just like they do the autothrottles.

I'm amazed... is this true? Autothrottles and autobrakes work VERY well on the B737-800. What about RTO? The automatic system is far quicker and more aggressive than human reaction time.

If I was preparing to land on 6500 feet, bad vis on a winter day, with possibly poor braking, those autobrakes would be set MAX.

 

[LarryinTN]

SWA does not deactivate the autobrakes. I saw them being used when I rode jumpseat in one of their 737-700s. They did have Boeing remove the autothrottles and VNAV mode on the autoflight.

 

[ultrarunner]

They did have Boeing remove the autothrottles and VNAV mode on the autoflight.

Is this reasoning for fleet commonality with the old planes, or something else?

 

[EagleRJ]

SWA does not deactivate the autobrakes.

....but I bet they deactivate the overspeed clacker! I've never heard a WN crew get busted on the radio like I've heard other carriers.

 

[satpak77]

SWA does not deactivate the autobrakes. I saw them being used when I rode jumpseat in one of their 737-700s. They did have Boeing remove the autothrottles and VNAV mode on the autoflight.

According to this, they are not used

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2002/AAB0204.htm

see under "Airplane Information"

this article, somewhat related, discusses the approach towards automation

http://www.aviationtoday.com/reports/southwest.htm

DISCLAIMER: Lets let the NTSB and FAA do its job before we point fingers

later

 

[Say Again Over]

You can also thank SWA for the 727 style upper panel.

 

[ATRedneck]

You can also thank SWA for the 727 style upper panel.

Since the 737 was certified in 1967, and SWA didn't start flying until 1973-ish, perhaps you could 'splain whatchoo mean.

 

[satpak77]

According to this, they are not used

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2002/AAB0204.htm

see under "Airplane Information"

this article, somewhat related, discusses the approach towards automation

http://www.aviationtoday.com/reports/southwest.htm

DISCLAIMER: Lets let the NTSB and FAA do its job before we point fingers

later

NOTE: They could be used presently, I do not know....I came across the above during an internet search, just an FYI

later

 

[PCL_128]

Since the 737 was certified in 1967, and SWA didn't start flying until 1973-ish, perhaps you could 'splain whatchoo mean.

I think he means that the "New Generation" 737s kept the old -200 overhead panel because SWA asked Boeing to keep things "standardized." That's the lore anyway; don't know how accurate it is.

 

[Inconceivable]

Since the 737 was certified in 1967, and SWA didn't start flying until 1973-ish, perhaps you could 'splain whatchoo mean.

Boeing wanted to certify the 737NG as a new type--SWA persuaded them through market forces to reconsider that idea.

Similarly, the 757/767 commonality is because of DL--Boeing just wanted to make the 767 and improve the 727-200ADV.

 

[TR4A]

SWA does not deactivate the autobrakes. I saw them being used when I rode jumpseat in one of their 737-700s. They did have Boeing remove the autothrottles and VNAV mode on the autoflight.

RTO Autobrakes are currently used. Autobrakes for landing is being added.

 

[Say Again Over]

Upper panels

"New Generation" 737s kept the old -200 overhead panel because SWA

What SWA wanted, SWA got.

 

[LarryinTN]

According to this, they are not use

They were used on the landing when I was in the jumpseat landing in snow at PIT a couple of months ago.

I can believe that they don't routinely use them on dry runways of adequate length but they certainly can, and do, use them at the Captain's discretion.