No 787s for DAL

[jetflier]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]No 787s in Delta's plans[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Company receives its first new plane, a 777, in 6 years[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Last updated February 29, 2008 6:10 p.m. PT[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]By JOSEPH TARTAKOFF
P-I REPORTER[/FONT]
On the same day that Delta Air Lines received its first new aircraft in six years -- a Boeing 777-200LR -- Delta President Edward Bastian said in an interview that the company did not have any plans to place orders for 787 Dreamliners.
Although Bastian said there had been no change in the company's plans, his statement contradicted earlier comments by Delta officials -- including former Chief Operating Officer Jim Whitehurst -- that the company could order as many as 125 Dreamliners.
"We don't see a need at the moment," Bastian said, adding that the Dreamliner was a "fine aircraft."
Atlanta-based Delta is in talks to merge with Northwest Airlines, which has placed orders for the Dreamliners, although Bastian said that was not a factor in the company's decision-making.
He declined to comment on the merger talks -- which have reportedly bogged down by negotiations between the two companies' pilot unions -- stating only that any deal "has to be right for our employees," meaning it "protects their jobs, the Delta spirit, and the Delta culture," and that the company had to be careful because mergers in the industry have a "historically poor track record."
"We feel confident we can stand alone," Bastian said.
Delta is undergoing an aggressive international expansion, spokeswoman Gina Laughlin said.
She said that by the time the airline receives its eighth 777-200LR from The Boeing Co. early next year, 40 percent of Delta's flights will be international. By contrast, before entering bankruptcy protection in 2005, about 20 percent of the airline's flights were on international routes.
The new 777-200 LR, which the company welcomed during a ceremony at Boeing Field on Friday morning, will be used on international routes, including Delta's New York to Mumbai, India, flight, Laughlin said.
The company already owns eight 777-200ERs. But the long-range 777-200LR can fly more than 10,000 nautical miles nonstop and carry more weight. It has a list price of $231 million to $256.5 million, according to Boeing's Web site.
Delta had not received new aircraft since Sept. 11, 2001, but it has orders for 10 Boeing 737-700s and two 737-800s.
P-I reporter Joseph Tartakoff can be reached at 206-448-8293 or [email protected].
� 1998-2008 Seattle Post-Intelligencer

 

[Muskycat]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]No 787s in Delta's plans[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Company receives its first new plane, a 777, in 6 years[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Last updated February 29, 2008 6:10 p.m. PT[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]By JOSEPH TARTAKOFF
P-I REPORTER[/FONT]
On the same day that Delta Air Lines received its first new aircraft in six years -- a Boeing 777-200LR -- Delta President Edward Bastian said in an interview that the company did not have any plans to place orders for 787 Dreamliners.
Although Bastian said there had been no change in the company's plans, his statement contradicted earlier comments by Delta officials -- including former Chief Operating Officer Jim Whitehurst -- that the company could order as many as 125 Dreamliners.
"We don't see a need at the moment," Bastian said, adding that the Dreamliner was a "fine aircraft."
Atlanta-based Delta is in talks to merge with Northwest Airlines, which has placed orders for the Dreamliners, although Bastian said that was not a factor in the company's decision-making.
He declined to comment on the merger talks -- which have reportedly bogged down by negotiations between the two companies' pilot unions -- stating only that any deal "has to be right for our employees," meaning it "protects their jobs, the Delta spirit, and the Delta culture," and that the company had to be careful because mergers in the industry have a "historically poor track record."
"We feel confident we can stand alone," Bastian said.
Delta is undergoing an aggressive international expansion, spokeswoman Gina Laughlin said.
She said that by the time the airline receives its eighth 777-200LR from The Boeing Co. early next year, 40 percent of Delta's flights will be international. By contrast, before entering bankruptcy protection in 2005, about 20 percent of the airline's flights were on international routes.
The new 777-200 LR, which the company welcomed during a ceremony at Boeing Field on Friday morning, will be used on international routes, including Delta's New York to Mumbai, India, flight, Laughlin said.
The company already owns eight 777-200ERs. But the long-range 777-200LR can fly more than 10,000 nautical miles nonstop and carry more weight. It has a list price of $231 million to $256.5 million, according to Boeing's Web site.
Delta had not received new aircraft since Sept. 11, 2001, but it has orders for 10 Boeing 737-700s and two 737-800s.
P-I reporter Joseph Tartakoff can be reached at 206-448-8293 or [email protected].
� 1998-2008 Seattle Post-Intelligencer

I know the company likes the 777LR's. cheaper than 787 and more importantly they can get them now. Since we have 136 757's and 100 767's, think it's inevitable that there will be a 787 order someday or Airbus.

And besides we're growing our mainline with more wide bodies, it works for me.

Nice to see our mainline growing again unlike some other companies at the moment.

 

[Mr.B]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]No 787s in Delta's plans[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Company receives its first new plane, a 777, in 6 years[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Last updated February 29, 2008 6:10 p.m. PT[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]By JOSEPH TARTAKOFF
P-I REPORTER[/FONT]
On the same day that Delta Air Lines received its first new aircraft in six years -- a Boeing 777-200LR -- Delta President Edward Bastian said in an interview that the company did not have any plans to place orders for 787 Dreamliners.
Although Bastian said there had been no change in the company's plans, his statement contradicted earlier comments by Delta officials -- including former Chief Operating Officer Jim Whitehurst -- that the company could order as many as 125 Dreamliners.
"We don't see a need at the moment," Bastian said, adding that the Dreamliner was a "fine aircraft."
Atlanta-based Delta is in talks to merge with Northwest Airlines, which has placed orders for the Dreamliners, although Bastian said that was not a factor in the company's decision-making.
He declined to comment on the merger talks -- which have reportedly bogged down by negotiations between the two companies' pilot unions -- stating only that any deal "has to be right for our employees," meaning it "protects their jobs, the Delta spirit, and the Delta culture," and that the company had to be careful because mergers in the industry have a "historically poor track record."
"We feel confident we can stand alone," Bastian said.
Delta is undergoing an aggressive international expansion, spokeswoman Gina Laughlin said.
She said that by the time the airline receives its eighth 777-200LR from The Boeing Co. early next year, 40 percent of Delta's flights will be international. By contrast, before entering bankruptcy protection in 2005, about 20 percent of the airline's flights were on international routes.
The new 777-200 LR, which the company welcomed during a ceremony at Boeing Field on Friday morning, will be used on international routes, including Delta's New York to Mumbai, India, flight, Laughlin said.
The company already owns eight 777-200ERs. But the long-range 777-200LR can fly more than 10,000 nautical miles nonstop and carry more weight. It has a list price of $231 million to $256.5 million, according to Boeing's Web site.
Delta had not received new aircraft since Sept. 11, 2001, but it has orders for 10 Boeing 737-700s and two 737-800s.
P-I reporter Joseph Tartakoff can be reached at 206-448-8293 or [email protected].
� 1998-2008 Seattle Post-Intelligencer

It appears all this posturing of huge orders and mega-expansion was nothing more than a negotiation tactic.

Something along the lines of "we have more, are getting more, and are going more places. Therefore, we will stay in the ATL, call ourselves DAL, and run the show".

 

[FDJ2]

The 787 may or may not be in our future, but 777LR definitely is.

 

[johnsonrod]

People also seem to forget that 737-700s are on the way in addition to a possible bump up in MD90s...

 

[Headfake14]

if Delta placed a 787 order...wouldn't they by way down the delievery line...whereas NWA has orders in the first batch right? I think.

 

[FDJ2]

if Delta placed a 787 order...wouldn't they by way down the delievery line...whereas NWA has orders in the first batch right? I think.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the 787 is the right airframe now, maybe not.

 

[1st Rate]

So what exactly is everybody saying about the 787? Are they getting them or not? May so...maybe not!!

 

[Sedona16]

So what exactly is everybody saying about the 787? Are they getting them or not? May so...maybe not!!

http://thedeltawidget.blogspot.com/

The Seattle Post-Intelligencer reporter, Joseph Tartakoff reported yesterday that on the same day that Delta received its first Boeing 777-200LR, Delta President Edward Bastian said in an interview that the company did not have any plans to place orders for 787 Dreamliners.
Although Bastian said there had been no change in the company's plans, his statement contradicted earlier comments by Delta officials, including former COO Jim Whitehurst that the company could order as many as 125 Dreamliners. "We don't see a need at the moment," Bastian said, adding that the Dreamliner was a "fine aircraft."

So is this Bastian being coy with the press? I don't think so, for now. I don't really see Bastian's comments as being contradicting to Whitehurst's statement that Delta could order them. The word could being key. Will Delta place an order for Boeing's 787 or Airbus's A350XWB? You bet they will but Delta has time on its side. Their 767-300ER's and the 767-400ER's are working well for them now so why invest in the 787? The extra 8 777-200LR's coming on line will allow Delta to expand its international network. It will also allow Delta to deploy the -200LR on routes now weight restricted with the 777-200ER. This in turn would allow them to again redeploy the -200ER on routes that the 767-300ER is currently operating on but could use a larger capacity aircraft. Again this would allow those displaced 767-300ER's to open new international routes that do not require the 777's. So when viewed this way, one can see the point Bastian is making with his statement regarding the 787.

Of course it could just be Bastian playing Boeing against Airbus to see who will give Delta the better deal!

One other note, RA said he preferred not to be one of the early customers for what is arguably one of the most radical changes in airplane building design in a very long time. There is alot of risk tied to having something so different as part of your fleet those first few years. Just ask JB, and the Ejet wasnt even that radical. Add to this the fact Boeing is under such intense pressure to get these things out the door and who knows what will happen. If you have say even twenty planes of your fleet going international and they are grounded for more than even a few days you are pretty much screwed.

 

[upndsky]

Yeah, never buy version 1.0 of anything.

 

[regionaltard]

Yeah, never buy version 1.0 of anything.

Are you sure about that?

J.J. version 1.0

J.J. version 2.0

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

I have heard that the lease rates for Delta's 767s is less than that of an RJ. More than makes up for the efficiencies of the 787 I guess.

 

[upndsky]

Are you sure about that?

J.J. version 1.0

J.J. version 2.0

I said buy, not "borrow."

 

[Sedona16]

Are you sure about that?

J.J. version 1.0

J.J. version 2.0

Based on the pics I would say you have the versions backwards.

 

[Shrek]

Actually no - the versions are in the correct order. I heard she was battling Cancer.

 

[Gunfighter]

If Delta wants some additional intl aircraft they could probably pick up a good deal on some new 767 now that the USAF went with Airbus.

 

[Headfake14]

If Delta wants some additional intl aircraft they could probably pick up a good deal on some new 767 now that the USAF went with Airbus.

I heard a little about that...were any of those 767s already produced? If so, I bet it'd be a b!tch to re-configure and everything.



As far as the 787 vs 767. Eventually, they'll have to replace it as other airlines get the 787 or A350. The 767 won't have a dog in that fight of fuel efficiency.

 

[Andy]

And besides we're growing our mainline with more wide bodies, it works for me.

Nice to see our mainline growing again unlike some other companies at the moment.

Rapid expansion into a major recession is NOT a sustainable business strategy in the airline industry. Right now, airlines should be hunkering down, hoarding cash, and have solid plans to trim capacity.
Most other companies have pared back growth plans significantly; Delta is doing the opposite. Do you think that the rest of the world is going to avoid recession? Take a look at home price appreciation in Europe over the last few years. Even more of a housing bubble has occurred in India. There is a saying that when the US economy sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold. I don't see it 'being different this time.' Rapid growth at this point in the economic cycle has the potential to end very poorly for Delta.

 

[General Lee]

Rapid expansion into a major recession is NOT a sustainable business strategy in the airline industry. Right now, airlines should be hunkering down, hoarding cash, and have solid plans to trim capacity.
Most other companies have pared back growth plans significantly; Delta is doing the opposite. Do you think that the rest of the world is going to avoid recession? Take a look at home price appreciation in Europe over the last few years. Even more of a housing bubble has occurred in India. There is a saying that when the US economy sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold. I don't see it 'being different this time.' Rapid growth at this point in the economic cycle has the potential to end very poorly for Delta.

Delta had too many widebodies flying domestic only routes (ATL--MCO and FLL etc), and has recently redeployed those assets to routes with more favorable yields. While doing that, they have moved smaller planes (767 domestic routes replaced by 757s, 757 routes replaced by 738s, etc...al the way down to RJs) around and have tightened the number of seats allowed, which has brought up prices and fares. Being flexible with aircraft types has brought up revenue. Also, with intense LCC competition domestically, searching for higher yields in far away places is not a bad thing, and the weaker dollar has now allowed foreigners the ability to fly to the US, instead of Americans flying to INTL destinations. Adding INTL routes brings in INTL currency, which is probably worth more than the dollar.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Mr.B]

Rapid expansion into a major recession is NOT a sustainable business strategy in the airline industry. Right now, airlines should be hunkering down, hoarding cash, and have solid plans to trim capacity.
Most other companies have pared back growth plans significantly; Delta is doing the opposite. Do you think that the rest of the world is going to avoid recession? Take a look at home price appreciation in Europe over the last few years. Even more of a housing bubble has occurred in India. There is a saying that when the US economy sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold. I don't see it 'being different this time.' Rapid growth at this point in the economic cycle has the potential to end very poorly for Delta.

Good points.

But IF I was the merger God...

AA and NWA
UA and CAL
Let the other two fight it out

 

[General Lee]

Good points.

But IF I was the merger God...

AA and NWA
UA and CAL
Let the other two fight it out

AA and NWA? Three hubs right next to each other? ORD between MSP and DTW? Which one would you let go? There is NO WAY the DOJ would allow 3 hubs all within 1 hour flying between each other. Pick again merger God....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Andy]

Delta had too many widebodies flying domestic only routes (ATL--MCO and FLL etc), and has recently redeployed those assets to routes with more favorable yields. While doing that, they have moved smaller planes (767 domestic routes replaced by 757s, 757 routes replaced by 738s, etc...al the way down to RJs) around and have tightened the number of seats allowed, which has brought up prices and fares. Being flexible with aircraft types has brought up revenue. Also, with intense LCC competition domestically, searching for higher yields in far away places is not a bad thing, and the weaker dollar has now allowed foreigners the ability to fly to the US, instead of Americans flying to INTL destinations. Adding INTL routes brings in INTL currency, which is probably worth more than the dollar.

Bye Bye--General Lee

GL, as usual, you're missing the point.

The consumer is tapped out. This is going to result in decreased air travel.
The US recession will drag down the entire world economy. The foreign consumer will also decrease air travel.

Delta is expanding at the end of the business cycle. This does not bode well for Delta. Why do you think everyone else is paring back their growth plans?

 

[General Lee]

GL, as usual, you're missing the point.

The consumer is tapped out. This is going to result in decreased air travel.
When the US economy sneezes, the world catches a cold. The foreign consumer will also decrease air travel.

Delta is expanding at the end of the business cycle. This does not bode well for Delta. Why do you think everyone else is paring back their growth plans?

Thanks for your version of the point. Can you tell me which US airlines are curbing INTL growth? I can see domestic curbing, but not INTL growth. That is where the money is, and we are shifting planes to meet the demand. We are getting some new planes, and they are going straight to INTL. Our new 777LRs that will be put on the BOM-JFK runs will make us an extra $10 million a year alone thanks to more cargo uplift capabilities. The planes will replace 777ERs, which will start ATL to PVG (Shanghai). United started IAD to PEK a year ago and has shown the ability to add an extra $200 million a year on that NEW route alone. If we get new route authority, we will exploit it. Very little domesitc growth is needed now, but INTL growth is essential. You have to go after the higher valued currency, and that is foreign currency at the moment. That is the point you are missing. Domestic coverage is to be maintained to block LCC growth as much as possible, while adding INTL growth. That is the plan.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[johnsonrod]

Good points.

But IF I was the merger God...

AA and NWA
UA and CAL
Let the other two fight it out

AA has enormous debt and very old aircraft (but not as old as NWA's Diesel 9s). Why would anyone want to align with an airline with that level of debt? I thought AA had the most debt of any major by far.... Am I wrong?

 

[Andy]

AA and NWA? Three hubs right next to each other? ORD between MSP and DTW? Which one would you let go? There is NO WAY the DOJ would allow 3 hubs all within 1 hour flying between each other. Pick again merger God....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Good point. It'd be like USAirways having PHL, PIT, DCA, and BWI as hubs. Oops - they did have all four of them as hubs at the same time pre-911.
The DOJ gets concerned about route overlap, which is where competition gets eliminated. I've never seen anything where DOJ was concerned with geographic location of hubs.

 

[General Lee]

Good point. It'd be like USAirways having PHL, PIT, DCA, and BWI as hubs. Oops - they did have all four of them as hubs at the same time pre-911.
The DOJ gets concerned about route overlap, which is where competition gets eliminated. I've never seen anything where DOJ was concerned with geographic location of hubs.

USAir CREATED those hubs internally, not through a merger. The DOJ can't stop an airline from creating their own hubs. None of those were acquired from another airline. Wrong!

The DOJ would say NO to an airline who wanted to merge with another with 3 hubs next to each other. And local politicans would not want the job loss that would result in a possible closing of one of those three hubs. Nah. As usual Andy, you are shooting from the hip with no ammo.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Andy]

AA has enormous debt and very old aircraft (but not as old as NWA's Diesel 9s). Why would anyone want to align with an airline with that level of debt? I thought AA had the most debt of any major by far.... Am I wrong?

AMR debt = $11.14B.
UAUA debt = $9.84B.
DAL debt = $9.30B.
NWA debt = $7.09B.
CAL debt = $5.02B.
LCC debt = $3.55B.

Relative to size, AMR's debt doesn't appear to be excessive.

 

[Andy]

USAir CREATED those hubs internally, not through a merger. The DOJ can't stop an airline from creating their own hubs. None of those were acquired from another airline. Wrong!

The DOJ would say NO to an airline who wanted to merge with another with 3 hubs next to each other. And local politicans would not want the job loss that would result in a possible closing of one of those three hubs. Nah. As usual Andy, you are shooting from the hip with no ammo.


Bye Bye--General Lee

And that'd be why the DOJ was going to allow the United/USAirways merger to keep the fortress hubs of IAD, PHL, and PIT?
BWI had already been dissembled by USAirways and the DCA fortress hub was going to be sold off in a sham deal to "DC Air," which would likely have ended up being a subsidiary of the combined airline.

DOJ's concerns lie in the number of fortress hubs, not the location of hubs.

 

[freightdogfred]

I have heard that the lease rates for Delta's 767s is less than that of an RJ.

Where the hell did ya hear that? That's got to be one of the most ridiculous things ever posted on FI.

 

[Tomct]

Actually no - the versions are in the correct order. I heard she was battling Cancer.

Possibly from all of those "Special Facials" she used to get on a regular basis.