no 4 year degree.....deal breaker or not?

[CX880]

uhm, George W. Bush is not the president anymore. We actually have a smart guy in office now.

Maybe not so smart people is what we need in office, so as to make sure they don't get any crazy ideas. Like socialism for example.

 

[Lynxman]

I don't usually agree with CX, but this time I will.

 

[wms]

A Yale grad sold out the middle class and a Harvard grad wants to redistribute what we have left to welfare freeloaders. We need a prez that has successful experience in the real working world, maybe someone with an online degree.

 

[acpilot]

uhm, George W. Bush is not the president anymore. We actually have a smart guy in office now.

HAHA! Good one.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Actually if you read my posts, I recommend flying full time and doing college on the side, so at age 25 you have an ATP 4000 hrs, 1200 TJ PIC in a 121 environment (hours needed to even be considered at DAL), two jet types, a BS in anything from Coloring to Astro physics from XYZ City College’s on-line pay your fee get your "B" course. Plus most likely you have no debt. But going to an aviation university to get your 100K BS in Piloting is not necessary. Now my recommended of course takes a lot of discipline. I have seen far too many succeed following this full time work part time college path. If the typical young kid out of high school has no discipline, then college right out of high school might be the best path to ensure that if, when, or whatever a major job comes along that will have the box checked. Besides I think five years of flying in the on-demand business is a place you really learn to fly. I know the degree has nothing to do with a pilot’s skill in the cockpit, I have witnessed terrible college educated (make that attended) pilots with no well rounded anything. Beside I get such rises from everyone, who I don’t think even read my posts, but go into orbit because I said college is not the end all in someone’s life. Kinda like saying there is no Easter Bunny. Still love to have beer to continue this discussion. BTW I agree a business degree is probalby the best degree to get to be pilot. It helps you understand living while betweeen jobs.

I would agree that a BSAS does not serve you as well as a BA in business or the like. A BSAS with a minor in business would be one way, but a degree in aviation does very little for you.

 

[dcfu69]

SWA does not require any degree.. they prefer it.. just not required. They hire mostly on attitude/personality. By the time you make it to a "Major" interview you can probably fly the hell out of a plane, and a degree does not mean jack when it comes to flying planes. Having your BS in biology,biz mgt, aviation,law, etc etc is not going to make you a better pilot... it may make you more marketable but I think it has no relation on whether or not you can fly a plane. I have several friends of mine that are now FO's at SWA with NO degree... like I said they care about attitude and personality first and foremost.. The way it should be if you ask me. I also have another good friend who is a senior FO at flexjet with no degree. There's are all kinds of avenues out there fellas.. But I do feel a degree is worth it if you have the time and money/loans to go out a get it.

 

[CX880]

SWA does not require any degree.. they prefer it.. just not required. They hire mostly on attitude/personality. By the time you make it to a "Major" interview you can probably fly the hell out of a plane, and a degree does not mean jack when it comes to flying planes. Having your BS in biology,biz mgt, aviation,law, etc etc is not going to make you a better pilot... it may make you more marketable but I think it has no relation on whether or not you can fly a plane. I have several friends of mine that are now FO's at SWA with NO degree... like I said they care about attitude and personality first and foremost.. The way it should be if you ask me. I also have another good friend who is a senior FO at flexjet with no degree. There's are all kinds of avenues out there fellas.. But I do feel a degree is worth it if you have the time and money/loans to go out a get it.

Sorry your living in a dream world. No one would look at you with no degree, especially Southwest. A close family friend of mine can attest to that. Not to mention the hiring boards there are all former military space commander astronauts.

 

[dcfu69]

No, actually I'm not... you obviously have NO IDEA about hiring at SWA. Believe me.. I DO. Look at the min req on the website. I have family at SWA that have been there for a LOONNG time. SWA prides themselves on hiring the best, most down to earth people in the industry.... trust me... a 4yr degree is NOT required at SW. Besides, I have personal friends of mine that are CURRENTLY working at SW that were hired during the last hiring trend and they do not have 4yr degrees. Certificates / Ratings: U.S. FAA Airline Transport Pilot Certificate. Unrestricted1 U.S. Type Rating on a B-737 not required for interview but required for employment.2
Age: Must be at least 23 years of age.
Flight Experience: 2,500 hours total or 1,500 hours TURBINE total. Additionally, a minimum of 1,000 hours in Turbine aircraft as the Pilot in command3 (as defined below) is required. Southwest considers only Pilot time in fixed-wing aircraft. This specifically excludes simulator, helicopter, WSO, RIO, FE, NAV, EWO etc. NO other time is counted.3
Currency: A minimum of 200 hours must be logged in the preceding 36 months.
Medical: Must possess a current FAA Class 1 Medical Certificate. Must pass FAA mandated Drug Test.
Authorization to work in the United States: Must have established authorization to work in the United States.
Driver License: Must possess a valid United States Driver License.
Education: Graduation from accredited, four-year college preferred.
Letters of Recommendation: At least three letters from any individuals who can attest to the pilot’s flying skills, by having observed him/her over a sustained period of time.

 

[dcfu69]

and no.. the hiring boards are not all military and ex nasa boys.. sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[CX880]

No, actually I'm not... you obviously have NO IDEA about hiring at SWA. Believe me.. I DO. Look at the min req on the website. I have family at SWA that have been there for a LOONNG time. SWA prides themselves on hiring the best, most down to earth people in the industry.... trust me... a 4yr degree is NOT required at SW. Besides, I have personal friends of mine that are CURRENTLY working at SW that were hired during the last hiring trend and they do not have 4yr degrees. Certificates / Ratings: U.S. FAA Airline Transport Pilot Certificate. Unrestricted1 U.S. Type Rating on a B-737 not required for interview but required for employment.2
Age: Must be at least 23 years of age.
Flight Experience: 2,500 hours total or 1,500 hours TURBINE total. Additionally, a minimum of 1,000 hours in Turbine aircraft as the Pilot in command3 (as defined below) is required. Southwest considers only Pilot time in fixed-wing aircraft. This specifically excludes simulator, helicopter, WSO, RIO, FE, NAV, EWO etc. NO other time is counted.3
Currency: A minimum of 200 hours must be logged in the preceding 36 months.
Medical: Must possess a current FAA Class 1 Medical Certificate. Must pass FAA mandated Drug Test.
Authorization to work in the United States: Must have established authorization to work in the United States.
Driver License: Must possess a valid United States Driver License.
Education: Graduation from accredited, four-year college preferred.
Letters of Recommendation: At least three letters from any individuals who can attest to the pilot’s flying skills, by having observed him/her over a sustained period of time.

I concede that Southwest likes to interview everyone but that is it.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I will attest that they hire with out degrees. Pilot with great attitudes and a boat load of experiences, but they do. It does not happen often but it does happen.

 

[pilotyip]

opps, no college degree

Oh! darn another one of pilots without a college degree was just hired by as a G-V Captain at a major corp. So much for needing the good ole degree to get those choice corp jobs. BTW I thinking of calling his new company and telling them he did not have the FI seal of approval to be a professional pilot, but then again I thought about it and figured they really would not care since they were getting a great well qualified guy.

 

[no1pilot2000]

Being an intern is fine if you are able to do it. I went to college for 6 years (five years part time and attended the sixth year full time to finish my degree). Unfortunately, taking part in an internship wouldn't have worked for me. People's situations are different.

 

["v"]

Do the hr folks just want to say that you have a 4 year degree. Period. Im thinking of doing a business degree mainly so i can be eligible for a major but i want another skill if i ever get furloughed and for the simple fact that it would be nice to learn something new.

Do the majors look down at online degrees? Anyone had any good or bad experiences or maybe a recommendation?

 

[spudskier]

You must be joking. What if you have a 2.9? Do you need a waiver from your local congressman?

No, you go work for a decent/realistic employer

 

[J.Otto]

Guess I'm not good enough to work at Delta since my GPA was only a 2.7. Damn shoulda worried more about school then learning to fly at the same time.

I managed to get straight A's and a 3.5 while learning to fly. Its not that difficult. School was actually fun for me. I enjoyed the gratification!

 

[11thHour]

Hi folks,

I dont have a 4 year degree and im wondering if that would be a deal breaker? I have the equivalent of a 2 year degree in aviation.

I tick the boxes of most airlines except the ones that ask for. Is it an important thing? Is it for insurance? What is the purpose of this requirement? Opinions?

Cheers,

V

No biggie. Good friend has no college and is an 11 year capt at XJT. However, he is having great difficulty moving on. He is now contemplating getting a degree just to be able to move on.

Personally, I'd make getting a non-aviation 4 year degree a paramount priority.

 

[Lynxman]

I managed to get straight A's and a 3.5 while learning to fly. Its not that difficult. School was actually fun for me. I enjoyed the gratification!

Wouldn't straight A's be a 4.0? :beer: Any who I decided having a little fun when I could was worth it. Working, flying and going to class is a lot of work who wouldn't want to kick back an party a night or two of the week right? Besides GPA isn't a measure of brain power just effort imo.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Do the hr folks just want to say that you have a 4 year degree. Period. Im thinking of doing a business degree mainly so i can be eligible for a major but i want another skill if i ever get furloughed and for the simple fact that it would be nice to learn something new.

Do the majors look down at online degrees? Anyone had any good or bad experiences or maybe a recommendation?

FWIW, it needs to come from an accredited college here at DAL. Not mail order stuff. If they do not know the university they check it against a database of accredited schools. I forget what board they use, but it is safe to say that a degree from any good sized college will work. (I know a few that have done on line at places like ERAU)

 

[dh82dvr]

When the are more applicants than jobs then the requirements go up (4 year degree required). When the opposite is true the 4 year degree is preferred.

 

[J.Otto]

Wouldn't straight A's be a 4.0? :beer: Any who I decided having a little fun when I could was worth it. Working, flying and going to class is a lot of work who wouldn't want to kick back an party a night or two of the week right? Besides GPA isn't a measure of brain power just effort imo.

I knew someone would say something! :0

Yeah, for the most part, I rocked A's, but some courses were just too tough to bust an A!

to be honest though, I didnt do a lot of partying in school. Didnt socialize much either. hardly dated. so perhaps this is why i managed to concentrate on the education.

GPAs can be over-rated. However, I do think having the degree is quite important for carer advancement in any occupation. It's just another notch, like having an A&P even though you really wouldnt have any practical use for it.

Flying lessons were also only on weekends, so it took the better part of the year to get that ppl certificate.

 

[Lynxman]

Agh it's all good ya I mixed flying in 3 days a week, but hey at least you have that A&P wish I did might be able to find some good work.

 

[Flightdawg]

to be honest though, I didnt do a lot of partying in school. Didnt socialize much either. hardly dated. so perhaps this is why i managed to concentrate on the education.

GPAs can be over-rated. However, I do think having the degree is quite important for carer advancement in any occupation.

Agreed a degree is important for a career. I was a wild child in college and majored in pussie and beer with a 2.6 GPA. It was a lot of fun, but I should have done better.

 

[Jetjockey]

I managed to get straight A's and a 3.5 while learning to fly. Its not that difficult. School was actually fun for me. I enjoyed the gratification!

Well straight As except for that statistics course.

 

[Lynxman]

Agreed a degree is important for a career. I was a wild child in college and majored in pussie and beer with a 2.6 GPA. It was a lot of fun, but I should have done better.

Sounds like we had similar stories lol. If I went back I wouldn't do it any differently except maybe go out even more.

 

[IBNAV8R]

It is important not to confuse education with intelligence. Unfortunately, most of the application sorters have only the former and will never understand the difference.

My advice, FWIW, is to build experience while getting your degree. In my case ERAU gave credit for experience and ratings and I could and did attend classes at one of many centers around the country.

That said, I'm with the same company that hired me without a degree and I'm probably gonna stay. The majors ain't what they used to be (colloquialism intended).

 

[pilotyip]

Well Said

It is important not to confuse education with intelligence. Unfortunately, most of the application sorters have only the former and will never understand the difference. My advice, FWIW, is to build experience while getting your degree. In my case ERAU gave credit for experience and ratings and I could and did attend classes at one of many centers around the country.

We see confusion here all the time on the difference between a real college degree and a piece of paper stating I have 120 Semester credit hours. It has been posted that I am anti-college degree. Nothing could is further from the truth. The country needs all the college-educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. Take China where it seems they get real college degrees. They are going to be the dominant world power in a couple decades. They a long with India will be the source of all innovation. There are more English speaking people in China than in the US. They produce 5 times the number of graduates in engineering, and the sciences. The US is so concerned with things like income redistribution, environment, and other issues that we are becoming unproductive. We can not complete. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. Do not spend four years getting a degree in Women’s Studies. The college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane. I have admitted that the possession of a degree may open doors at a few select places of employment at the upper end of the airline industry. If a potential pilot feels they will only be pleased in life if they get an interview with FedEx, DAL, or UPS then that prospective pilot should go to college and get a degree in anything. If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$100K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary. I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree. As per IBNA.. my advice is go to school part time or community college and fly, pilots get hired because they have flight time. Flt time moves you up the food chain to better jobs; the degree is not needed until the last step. You can go to school part time with a full time flying job, you cannot build real flight time while going to school full time. I guess we are getting very politically correct and having an option different that someone else’s is not allowed. I continually see the “If you do not have college degree you are not as good as me” I can not accept that, I just too many people who I admire who do not have degrees. BTW At JUS almost every pilot has a college degree, because everyone has them.

 

[satpak77]

6 pages later, in sum, we now know that

A degree makes you more competitive for the harder-to-get jobs, such as SWA, FDX (only an example )
A degree has NOTHING to do with IQ points
A degree has NOTHING to do with flying ability
A degree is held by more folks than not
And.....A degree makes you more competitive for the harder-to-get jobs, such as SWA, FDX (only an example)

So, everything else being equal, get the degree

** If you are 11 years old and reading this, I recommend a degree from the Air Force Academy, a career flying KC-10s, KC-135s, C-40's, retire as a Colonel, and go to the airlines, preferably FDX or UPS.

 

[CX880]

** If you are 11 years old and reading this, I recommend a degree from the Air Force Academy, a career flying KC-10s, KC-135s, C-40's, retire as a Colonel, and go to the airlines, preferably FDX or UPS.

What if Fedex paid 22 dollars on hour would you go then? Go for the place that you actually would like to go. Freight flying is very hard, there's a reason why they get paid more. Even their airline management feels sorry for them.

 

[J.Otto]

Agh it's all good ya I mixed flying in 3 days a week, but hey at least you have that A&P wish I did might be able to find some good work.

Nah.. I was just sayin in general, notthat i had one. Although I wish I had an A&P for the heck of it though!