NJA TA...What's your bet?

[notaNJApilot]

Knowing that you will work 18 days is a good thing?

You mean the 18 days your contract allows you to fly?

 

[gunfyter]

You mean the 18 days your contract allows you to fly?

Yeah thats what I mean. 18 days the contract allows us to fly unless that interferes with the HH days the contract also allows.

I'll take HH days over PBS.... If you gotta know your schedule in advance... bid the 7&7.

 

[Mach92]

Yeah thats what I mean. 18 days the contract allows us to fly unless that interferes with the HH days the contract also allows.

I'll take HH days over PBS.... If you gotta know your schedule in advance... bid the 7&7.

And I'll take 9 H days IE PBS over 4 H days.

 

[gunfyter]

And I'll take 9 H days IE PBS over 4 H days.

I think that would be fine if I wanted to work 18 days. If the schedule options change I am probably a 7&7 guy ... maybe FLEX.

It will be interesting to see how many people wind up on the 18 day schedule.

Might explore doing one 18 Fixed trimester per yr... and other two on 7&7.

 

[Diesel]

I agree with the observation that those opposed are often financially better off than those who want the proposal to pass.

From my early '70s fixer-upper house, with my old car currently in the shop, I freely admit that the signing bonus and pay raise looks good to me.

You gotta love the people that think about ME covering it up with them saying they really are helping out everyone else and want to lift all boats.

Some people aren't blinded by the short term fixes of small increase in pay, and a reduced hba groups, with the hope that this all will be revisited before 2013.

Those who read the proposal time and time again, asking the tough questions, and staying informed are labeled as haters.

All the documentation isn't even published yet. LOA's changed the last contract from what we originally signed. I really don't care about intent. I care about the written word so until I've got ALL associated documents and been to the meetings (not AA) I can't make a decision till then.

Read the IBB like it might be your last contract for 8.5 years. Because it just might be and you better love the damn thing.

Or go for the short money. We all get a vote.

 

[skiandsurf]

Those who read the proposal time and time again, asking the tough questions, and staying informed are labeled as haters.

I will say that there are some really good questions being asked on the union board, and I do thank those that ask them. And BO and others do a great job answering these questions.

As far as being labeled haters, I think it is just the tone of a few that keep beating this down.

 

[netjetwife]

You gotta love the people that think about ME covering it up with them saying they really are helping out everyone else and want to lift all boats. You are really reaching now... I'm on record many times as advocating professional wages for all frac pilots. Any NJ pilot would be hard pressed to find a family more supportive of those on the bottom of the list than my family is. I explained where I'm "coming from" because it helps readers identify the motivation of the poster when they know that person's circumstances. Suffice it to say, board members, that Die$el and I don't have much in common --financially speaking...

Some people aren't blinded by the short term fixes of small increase in pay, "Small" is relative... the less money one has the bigger the pay raise looks. and a reduced hba groups, with the hope that this all will be revisited before 2013. Those who read the proposal time and time again, asking the tough questions, and staying informed are labeled as haters. It has been my observation that those respectfully asking questions are answered the same way. Many pilots like the idea of 100 bases instead of 5 domiciles for the post CBAers and contract language that secures HBAs indefinitely is viewed as an important gain for those in that system. I'm not alone in thinking that passage of the IBB TA will make it more likely that the IBB method will be repeated as needed in the future.

All the documentation isn't even published yet. Just a matter of time, might even be at the printer's now. LOA's changed the last contract from what we originally signed. I highly doubt that the negotiators would spring an ugly surprise on the pilot group at the 11th hour when both sides want the proposal to pass. If there was anything added, common sense says they would try to sweeten the deal. I really don't care about intent. Next week part of the IBB team will spend a lot of time working with transcripts that will be used to settle future disagreements. (I always ask about my husband's work... ) Intent was considered a critical component of IBB so a stenographer took down every word. I care about the written word so until I've got ALL associated documents and been to the meetings (not AA) I can't make a decision till then. I have been to a meeting. (I was included in the talk afterwards--thanks guys! ) The few pilots who expressed concern were easily reassured with the explanations given. The audience was interested in the intent/attitudes (especially from management) behind the deal. It was explained that some of the language was there in the event of a worst case scenario and improvements over the 2005 CBA were cited. The NJ pilots were appreciative of the insight shared by an EBoard Trustee, a negotiator, and 3 MEC members. No one accused the leadership of being "blind"...

Read the IBB like it might be your last contract for 8.5 years. Because it just might be and you better love the damn thing. My suggestion: Read it with an open-mind and the idea of supporting the IBB process by doing your part to continue moving forward as a union and a company. Give positive reinforcement to the leaders of both sides and they will be more inclined to solve problems fairly and quickly in the years ahead. Lock in job security and QOL improvements now while NJA is posting big profits that aren't yet being siphoned off to start up another NJ company elsewhere in the world.

Or go for the short money. Those who need the money know what a big difference it will make in their life. The pilots who understand IBB realize that there is only one chance to accept the final deal. All the rejected proposals were slid back and forth across the table already. IBB saves time but it does require trustworthy leaders to be advantageous to the group. We all get a vote.

I think that most of the NJ pilots look forward to voting on the proposal. They know that the same leadership that brought them the current CBA worked on and/or endorsed the IBB proposal. Most understand that compromise is required at the bargaining table. I predict that the majority is satisfied that IBB brought a deal that is fair overall while offering job security and a chance to concentrate on personal life without having to go thru another stressful contract battle just to possibly acquire what they are being offered right now.

I'm hoping that IBB makes a direct positive impact on the NJ pilot group and indirectly on other fractional pilots by raising wages in the industry. Best wishes to all affected by the outcome.
Netjetwife

 

[fischman]

Another thing to keep in mind. Everyone is saying this is an 8.5 year deal. Keep in mind that the company needs to jump though A LOT of hoops for that to happen. Just something to think about.

 

[ce750drvr]

I am the first one to agree that seniority has privelages and not once have I compained about the commute or pay. Let me ask all of you this. When do us newbees earn, yes I said EARN the right to have a voice???? Is it 1 year, 2 years, 3, 4 when???? I'm guessing NEVER because we weren't here to fight the fight with you. Don't get me wrong. It is greatly appreciated and I extend my thanks to those that had the guts to stand up and fight. If I was working at NJA at the time I'd be fighting right alongside you. But man, the more I read the more I think
that some, NOT ALL of the pre-rats have a superiority complex. I try to be respectful as I can but it is disappointing to know how soon some of you may have forgotten what it was like when you started. How quickly one forgets.
It seems that all this condescending patroninzing is getting on OUR nerves. Most of you guys have the same stock answer, "Now, you go be good little ugly red headed stepchhildren locked in the basement and we'll let you know when you can come on up and get something to eat you little post-rat. Afterall you knew whatchy'all got yourselves into!" (banjo playing deliverence in the background)

Hopalong,

You DO have a voice NOW, it is called a vote. Do what you will with it. I respect your yes vote and have no problem with it. Congrats if it passes my friend. What I have a problem with is this; when I express my dissatisfaction with some of the areas of the IBB and voice that I will vote no, I am told that I am greedy and not thinking of the "post-rat" (by the way, I hate that term and have used it for the first time just now) guys. I am accused of being a "me", "I", or "selfish" person. The term on the union message board is "the MEssage" board for those of us voting no. A term started by someone on the EB. Kinda sad when they tell us to vote what is best for me and my family. Im sorry to tell you, but it IS my vote. Your commute, your pay, and whatever it is that helps you and your family quite frankly might not help me and my family. I'm not angry at anyone that votes yes, but it seems that if us NO voters express that we are voting no, we catch some anger from some. Vote yes, I'm happy for you as I have said if it passes, but I'm voting no.

 

[Ultra Grump]

...contract language that secures HBAs indefinitely is viewed as an important gain for those in that system.

The changes to the HBA system are most definitely NOT a gain.