NJA size

[G4dude]

yep yep yep

What specifically are they doing wrong?

 

[fischman]

What specifically are they doing wrong?

Maybe they should return emails from upset customers...

 

[G4dude]

Maybe they should return emails from upset customers...[/QUOTE

Ya think?

 

[BentOver]

Maybe they should return emails from upset customers...

Besides not selling shares, they also cancelled a/c orders that should be arriving already, giving them more of a chance to sell said shares..

They are also wasting way too much time trying to Union bust. Who knows how much they are paying the "Employee Relations Man"!

They are also spreading their FUD campaign. One day saying things are going good, all is well. The next they are spreading rumors of furloughs.. To top it off they are tying said furloughs in with scope concessions. I, and many of us, have seen this tactic before. We see right through it.

Management is being deceitful in the way they are trying to get things done. The sad part is, if they would make an attempt to truly work with the Union, and if they would show some actual gains, they would have the cooperation of many many more pilots. (Not breaking the CBA, but they'd have a little more give and take, akin to the "tell me to jump and I'll ask how high".)

Using jobs, furloughed or otherwise, as political pawns, is no way to get things done. Just think, if they would actually do something to precipitate recalls, they'd have 495 or so more cooperative employees. People tend to work with and trust those who provide a non-hostile, productive, environment.

Finally, I'm on my 9th CEO/President over the last 11 years.... And besides Sokol, these guys are the next worst. This includes regional CEO's, mom-and pop operation owners etc...

The absolute worst CEO's/Presidents I have ever seen are the last 2 at Netjets.

It has nothing to do with me being laid off either, that was an economic faultn that occurred 3 YEARS AGO. although Sokol didn't help things there either.

 

[G4dude]

Besides not selling shares, they also cancelled a/c orders that should be arriving already, giving them more of a chance to sell said shares..

They are also wasting way too much time trying to Union bust. Who knows how much they are paying the "Employee Relations Man"!

They are also spreading their FUD campaign. One day saying things are going good, all is well. The next they are spreading rumors of furloughs.. To top it off they are tying said furloughs in with scope concessions. I, and many of us, have seen this tactic before. We see right through it.

Management is being deceitful in the way they are trying to get things done. The sad part is, if they would make an attempt to truly work with the Union, and if they would show some actual gains, they would have the cooperation of many many more pilots. (Not breaking the CBA, but they'd have a little more give and take, akin to the "tell me to jump and I'll ask how high".)

Using jobs, furloughed or otherwise, as political pawns, is no way to get things done. Just think, if they would actually do something to precipitate recalls, they'd have 495 or so more cooperative employees. People tend to work with and trust those who provide a non-hostile, productive, environment.

Finally, I'm on my 9th CEO/President over the last 11 years.... And besides Sokol, these guys are the next worst. This includes regional CEO's, mom-and pop operation owners etc...

The absolute worst CEO's/Presidents I have ever seen are the last 2 at Netjets.

It has nothing to do with me being laid off either, that was an economic faultn that occurred 3 YEARS AGO. although Sokol didn't help things there either.

Thanks for that info, bent. I have a couple of observations. I fly for NJA too, and I have heard of NONE of this. I am not clueless, I work here too, and have for a long time. Are you sure your sources are good? Also, Noe and Eyer ran a VERY good ship at NJI, so questioning their management ability seems a little-questionable- to me, no offence intended. Isn't it possible the problem is Luthi and the union radicals? And I really don't intend to offend anybody here. Except brokeflyer of course.

 

[BentOver]

Thanks for that info, bent. I have a couple of observations. I fly for NJA too, and I have heard of NONE of this. I am not clueless, I work here too, and have for a long time. Are you sure your sources are good? Also, Noe and Eyer ran a VERY good ship at NJI, so questioning their management ability seems a little-questionable- to me, no offence intended. Isn't it possible the problem is Luthi and the union radicals? And I really don't intend to offend anybody here. Except brokeflyer of course.

No offense taken...

As far as sales, I think we can all agree they are missing their targets..... For whatever reason.. I deduce it is because they have no new a/c to sell. Along with reducing passenger care via longer wait times to Owner services, cheapened ammenities. And by far the worst is going from Santulli, to a CEO like Sokol and Hansel. I would bet my right throwing arm that Santulli was much better at customer care... Heck, Hansell hasn't even said a peep to his employees.

As far as FUD.... Not one month after the famous recalls in the next couple of years announcement, hiring by around 2016.... We had a guy come from recurrent and provided a word for word account of how he was basically lambasted with" if you all don't give in to scope concessions, we can't guarantee your job, or that new a/c will arrive.." I would say that is pretty deceiftful, and downright rude bullying....

Something tells me that Eyer wasn't pulling all the strings at NJI... Any improvements or sales came from Santulli's doing and/or word of mouth via NJA customers..... From the looks of it, a monkey could have sold a share at NJA in 2006-2007.... It's like real estate... Every agent looked like the best in 2002-2007...The good ones still remain, the bad are no longer selling....Anybody can lead during the good times...

 

[fischman]

Thanks for that info, bent. I have a couple of observations. I fly for NJA too, and I have heard of NONE of this. I am not clueless, I work here too, and have for a long time. Are you sure your sources are good? Also, Noe and Eyer ran a VERY good ship at NJI, so questioning their management ability seems a little-questionable- to me, no offence intended. Isn't it possible the problem is Luthi and the union radicals? And I really don't intend to offend anybody here. Except brokeflyer of course.

In everyone's own mind there is a perception that is reality. Here is mine.

Luthi and the other "union radicals" were in office before the poop hit the fan. Everything was going great! Noe and Eyer are NOT leaders. They are "yes men" who do whatever the boss at the time says. (Did you get a chance to ask Noe how Santulli got ousted yet?) So what is the variable? What has changed? Sokol and Hansell.

And please try to not take offense to this, but I do think you are ignorant of the history and politics of the company, but I do admire you asking questions and TRYING to get the whole picture instead of the lopsided views in the GLC cockpits.

 

[G4dude]

In everyone's own mind there is a perception that is reality. Here is mine.

Luthi and the other "union radicals" were in office before the poop hit the fan. Everything was going great! Noe and Eyer are NOT leaders. They are "yes men" who do whatever the boss at the time says. (Did you get a chance to ask Noe how Santulli got ousted yet?) So what is the variable? What has changed? Sokol and Hansell.

And please try to not take offense to this, but I do think you are ignorant of the history and politics of the company, but I do admire you asking questions and TRYING to get the whole picture instead of the lopsided views in the GLC cockpits.

But, if I understand correctly, NJI was more profitable than NJA. Doesn't that speak well for Noe and Eyer? I have worked with both of them, and was very impressed. Our ops under NJI were smoother and more efficient, with better customer service and employee morale, even with no union to protect us. I see the same set of facts as y'all do, but come to vastly different conclusions.

 

[G4dude]

No offense taken...

As far as sales, I think we can all agree they are missing their targets..... For whatever reason.. I deduce it is because they have no new a/c to sell. Along with reducing passenger care via longer wait times to Owner services, cheapened ammenities. And by far the worst is going from Santulli, to a CEO like Sokol and Hansel. I would bet my right throwing arm that Santulli was much better at customer care... Heck, Hansell hasn't even said a peep to his employees.

As far as FUD.... Not one month after the famous recalls in the next couple of years announcement, hiring by around 2016.... We had a guy come from recurrent and provided a word for word account of how he was basically lambasted with" if you all don't give in to scope concessions, we can't guarantee your job, or that new a/c will arrive.." I would say that is pretty deceiftful, and downright rude bullying....

Something tells me that Eyer wasn't pulling all the strings at NJI... Any improvements or sales came from Santulli's doing and/or word of mouth via NJA customers..... From the looks of it, a monkey could have sold a share at NJA in 2006-2007.... It's like real estate... Every agent looked like the best in 2002-2007...The good ones still remain, the bad are no longer selling....Anybody can lead during the good times...

Selling shares in this economy is a tough thing. Ordering planes and hoping to sell shares? Suicidal. I have been through recurrents too, and haven't had ANY of the stuff thrown at me that you describe. NOTHING. I work here too, as do my friends at the former NJI, and we don't understand any of this acrimony. Its not that we just disagree on the fixes, we don't even agree about the facts on the ground. NJA is the best run company I ever worked for, except for NJI, and I worked for 23 of them. It is not perfect, nothing in this world is. Which company are y'all comparing NetJets to?

 

[gutshotdraw]

TRYING to get the whole picture instead of the lopsided views in the GLC cockpits.

As compared to the "fair and balanced" views in the gold tie cockpits? Please.

The amount of disinformation, distortion, and obfuscation about NJI's creation, history, operations, pay, upgrade policy, and the like that has been floating around this place for years could fill a library wing at Harvard.

Trying to correct the errors has been like Don Quixote tilting at windmills.

As with all things, including the statements from Luthi and Hansell, the truth is somewhere in the MIDDLE and ALWAYS in the eye of the beholder.