NJA size

[rajflyboy]

I love it. Come on here and lie to argue the points you make.

Great!

 

[realityman]

I love it. Come on here and lie to argue the points you make.

Great!

Not sure what you're talking about. Are you referencing my post? If so, everything I posted can be verified with a little research. The exception being what I make. Sorry, not going to post my W2 for your edification.

But you can compare 14th year captain pay now vs. what it was pre-IBB. If you don't believe me then nothing I say will convince you. Best I can do is give you my word that I wasn't making anywhere near the difference in pay with O/T than what my pay is now. I stand by my claim that I make more now without the O/T than I did with it pre-IBB. But as already mentioned, IBB had nothing to do with the loss of O/T.

People are not happy with various sections of the IBB. As a whole, most are glad we have it. Same as you, I have no way of providing a scientific poll to prove my point. Just my interactions with other pilots. Not sure how that would qualify as a lie.

Anyway, if you weren't referencing my post, please accept my apologies and disregard this whole thing. If you were, make your points, don't throw out accusations or call names. PROVE where I am lieing.

 

[imacdog]

If Raj had his way you guys would still be under the pre-2005 contract.

 

[realityman]

Oh, it doesn't bother me. Nothing he or I says on here makes any difference in the world anyway. This is FI after all. Good entertainment (sometimes), nothing more.

Just thought it interesting for him to call me (or whoever) a liar, but offers up no intelligent rebuttal. Just name calling. The very last paragraph of my long post asked some direct questions of him. Will be interesting to see how/if he answers any of them.

 

[BentOver]

offers up no intelligent rebuttal. Just name calling.

Ahhh here is where you went wrong... Raj and intelligent cannot be used in the same sentence when it comes to IBB....:beer:

 

[rajflyboy]

Ahhh here is where you went wrong... Raj and intelligent cannot be used in the same sentence when it comes to IBB....:beer:

People who say we lost no vacation and no credit card points and say the G wiz merger was great are simply not telling the facts. Why even argue with people who won't deal in the facts.

 

[realityman]

People who say we lost no vacation and no credit card points and say the G wiz merger was great are simply not telling the facts. Why even argue with people who won't deal in the facts.

Raj, you still aren't dealing entirely with facts either. The credit card thing had nothing to do with IBB. Nothing. It was a change made by the company outside of any negotiated contract. Now, if you're mad at the union for not pursuing action more aggressively against the company in regards to the credit card change, then fine. Maybe they should have. But it is NOT related to anything that was negotiated, or negotiated away, in the IBB.

As far as the Gulfstream integration, we're dealing with opinions here. Hard to call someone a 'liar' when expressing a very objective opinion. If I disagree with your opinion about if the integration was fair or not, does that make you a liar? But as far as opinions go, it seems like it was a fair integration. I'm sure you believe it should have been more slanted towards the NJA side, but if you review the history of most aviation integrations and mergers, we pulled ours off with the least amount of hassle and heartburn for everyone. Even some of our smartest folks who haven't been big supporters of our union, have pointed to many examples where if we had tried taking the hard line route (a seniority staple to the bottom for the NJI folks, for example) would have most likely worked out even worse for us if put in the hands of an arbitrator, as it most suredly would have been had we gone that route. Just curious, what about the integration is so awful that you feel it denigrates the entire IBB?

About the lost vacation. I know you'll have a heart attack when I say this, but I agree with you. Some folks DID lose vacation with the IBB. It wasn't right, and I was one of the people saying so at the time. As I said, it's not a perfect document. But what is? The difference between us is, I'm willing to admit it has flaws, but believe when taken as a whole, we benefitted a great deal from it, while you won't even acknowledge there's anything good in it, and seem to believe we're worse off now because of it, and even calling those of us who like it 'sheep' and 'liars'. Sorry, I'm neither a sheep nor a liar. I read the ENTIRE document. I discovered there were some parts I didn't like, but when looking at the ENTIRE document, it was going to be an overall win for the group.

Yes, it's all my personal opinion. Nothing more, and I don't pretend to represent it as anything else. One thing I'm SURE of, if we had passed on the IBB there is no way in hell we'd be doing better now. Just with pay alone, we 'd have been trying to get raises ON TOP OF recouping the money we passed on with the IBB, and doing it while the company was floundering and with a very hostile management team.

 

[BentOver]

If anyones a "sheep" it's the current EMT...

They are following the playbook of a disgraced former executive who was humiliated by Berkshire, had no friends at NJA, and probably was the worst CEO/President I have ever seen.

Why they continue down his path is a mystery we may never know.. Maybe Sokol had special brainwashing powers over other executives??

 

[G4dude]

Raj, you still aren't dealing entirely with facts either. The credit card thing had nothing to do with IBB. Nothing. It was a change made by the company outside of any negotiated contract. Now, if you're mad at the union for not pursuing action more aggressively against the company in regards to the credit card change, then fine. Maybe they should have. But it is NOT related to anything that was negotiated, or negotiated away, in the IBB.

As far as the Gulfstream integration, we're dealing with opinions here. Hard to call someone a 'liar' when expressing a very objective opinion. If I disagree with your opinion about if the integration was fair or not, does that make you a liar? But as far as opinions go, it seems like it was a fair integration. I'm sure you believe it should have been more slanted towards the NJA side, but if you review the history of most aviation integrations and mergers, we pulled ours off with the least amount of hassle and heartburn for everyone. Even some of our smartest folks who haven't been big supporters of our union, have pointed to many examples where if we had tried taking the hard line route (a seniority staple to the bottom for the NJI folks, for example) would have most likely worked out even worse for us if put in the hands of an arbitrator, as it most suredly would have been had we gone that route. Just curious, what about the integration is so awful that you feel it denigrates the entire IBB?

About the lost vacation. I know you'll have a heart attack when I say this, but I agree with you. Some folks DID lose vacation with the IBB. It wasn't right, and I was one of the people saying so at the time. As I said, it's not a perfect document. But what is? The difference between us is, I'm willing to admit it has flaws, but believe when taken as a whole, we benefitted a great deal from it, while you won't even acknowledge there's anything good in it, and seem to believe we're worse off now because of it, and even calling those of us who like it 'sheep' and 'liars'. Sorry, I'm neither a sheep nor a liar. I read the ENTIRE document. I discovered there were some parts I didn't like, but when looking at the ENTIRE document, it was going to be an overall win for the group.

Yes, it's all my personal opinion. Nothing more, and I don't pretend to represent it as anything else. One thing I'm SURE of, if we had passed on the IBB there is no way in hell we'd be doing better now. Just with pay alone, we 'd have been trying to get raises ON TOP OF recouping the money we passed on with the IBB, and doing it while the company was floundering and with a very hostile management team.

I agree with this guy.

 

[rajflyboy]

If anyones a "sheep" it's the current EMT...

They are following the playbook of a disgraced former executive who was humiliated by Berkshire, had no friends at NJA, and probably was the worst CEO/President I have ever seen.

Why they continue down his path is a mystery we may never know.. Maybe Sokol had special brainwashing powers over other executives??

yep yep yep