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Nja Not Hiring In 2004
- Thread starter ductleak
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Live4flyng
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300 aircraft at 4.5 pilots per average = 1350 total needed. Add 25 AC next year and you need 1500 total, we have 1850ish now. No pilots needed per roundtable meeting beginning of Nov.
The X intials will be filled by exising pilots like all of the other intial slots have been over the past year...and those will casue some excel bids etc.
The X intials will be filled by exising pilots like all of the other intial slots have been over the past year...and those will casue some excel bids etc.
The hiring dept says we WILL NOT be hiring in '04. They also temper that statement by saying this absolutely subject to change.
I gaurantee we will hire in '04. The compnay is awating the completion of the "industry leading contract", we have alot of folks leaving for JB, Frontier and soon Southwest. Trust me, hang on because the hiring will start.
There will be many guys who just plain quit this coming year becasue after the holidays they wont be able to afford working for NutJets.
I gaurantee we will hire in '04. The compnay is awating the completion of the "industry leading contract", we have alot of folks leaving for JB, Frontier and soon Southwest. Trust me, hang on because the hiring will start.
There will be many guys who just plain quit this coming year becasue after the holidays they wont be able to afford working for NutJets.
Griz said:
Friend of mine works on the "Planning" side of the house (determines when we need to ask for volunteers...etc...). Anyway, this individual was telling me how the head mathematician is jumping up and down; screaming and yelling: telling the company that with 91K going into affect, we are very understaffed.
I would expect, in the next few months, to start hearing about furloughs as well. Typical....
Guess I will be first..
The first one to say that the contract is not a factor in the '04 hiring. That is implying it will be done in '04 which I find hard to believe, even if they put together a TA this year it will not pass, this has drug on so long that everyone keeps upping the expectations of what we need to get. Hope I am wrong, but I am personally planning on status quo for '04, keeping the belt tightened and the credit card in hand. That being said however, I too am sticking around for the long haul, the thought of going back to the 121 world is not appealing to me at all after doing this.
The first one to say that the contract is not a factor in the '04 hiring. That is implying it will be done in '04 which I find hard to believe, even if they put together a TA this year it will not pass, this has drug on so long that everyone keeps upping the expectations of what we need to get. Hope I am wrong, but I am personally planning on status quo for '04, keeping the belt tightened and the credit card in hand. That being said however, I too am sticking around for the long haul, the thought of going back to the 121 world is not appealing to me at all after doing this.
cgmason1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 235
Actually As (pronounced Ass?)
With everything thrown in (base pay, OT, Flex Schedule Pay, Extended Days Etc)
I made 50K+ my first year and 60K+ my second-so your facts are not totally correct.
But I do agree the pay needs to go way up-along with other needed changes..
The state of the industry has not helped up with our negotiations thats for sure-especially when there is stacks of resumes from people willing to take the job at the current pay rates.
Fly Safe
Chuck
Ps also I am not adding in the money I get for my military reserve duty-which NJA is very flexible with allowing me to do.
With everything thrown in (base pay, OT, Flex Schedule Pay, Extended Days Etc)
I made 50K+ my first year and 60K+ my second-so your facts are not totally correct.
But I do agree the pay needs to go way up-along with other needed changes..
The state of the industry has not helped up with our negotiations thats for sure-especially when there is stacks of resumes from people willing to take the job at the current pay rates.
Fly Safe
Chuck
Ps also I am not adding in the money I get for my military reserve duty-which NJA is very flexible with allowing me to do.
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Diesel
TEB Hilton resident
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,394
hey as214 has his blinders on. All he can see is the big blue in JFK. Only problem is he has stood his ground at comair so he can walk the walk.
he's just po'ed he's a x captain making ultra pilot wages. (that and he realized fire island is another name for long island)
I think his comment was made as a joke with a truth to it. We are fighting for a new pay raise and industry leading contract. I know as214 will walk the walk but I am worried about some of the other guys i have met on the road.
NJA will hire in 2004. Look at the economy it's turning around and aviation is getting stronger again. This is the good thing about the contract taking so long that the economy has actually turned around.
he's just po'ed he's a x captain making ultra pilot wages. (that and he realized fire island is another name for long island)
I think his comment was made as a joke with a truth to it. We are fighting for a new pay raise and industry leading contract. I know as214 will walk the walk but I am worried about some of the other guys i have met on the road.
NJA will hire in 2004. Look at the economy it's turning around and aviation is getting stronger again. This is the good thing about the contract taking so long that the economy has actually turned around.
B
buttercup
CG MASON,
The only ass here is you. You made 60 k your second year, that's great I'm real proud of you. Let us see here, to make that you were saying something about OT, flex schedule, and extended days..HMMM.That's a great attitude. So you basically had to whore yourself out to make 60k. So before you start with the personal attacks bear in mind, I've walked the walk before have you? But let me guess you're just happy to be flying a jet!
The only ass here is you. You made 60 k your second year, that's great I'm real proud of you. Let us see here, to make that you were saying something about OT, flex schedule, and extended days..HMMM.That's a great attitude. So you basically had to whore yourself out to make 60k. So before you start with the personal attacks bear in mind, I've walked the walk before have you? But let me guess you're just happy to be flying a jet!
B
buttercup
Lrjet55,
Now..now why the personal attacks!! Lrjet55 I've been on strike before so I've seen your kind!! You're the type that will vote yes for a 20% pay increase with no retro!!! Then after the fact you'll never admit that you voted yes!! You're the one who's insignificant, my significance will be proven with a NO vote on anything short of 100% retro and 100% pay increase at a minimum! Ciao!!
Now..now why the personal attacks!! Lrjet55 I've been on strike before so I've seen your kind!! You're the type that will vote yes for a 20% pay increase with no retro!!! Then after the fact you'll never admit that you voted yes!! You're the one who's insignificant, my significance will be proven with a NO vote on anything short of 100% retro and 100% pay increase at a minimum! Ciao!!
cgmason1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 235
I wasn't attacking you so don't get your panties in too much of a wad-I was just kidding about your screen name.
True-I did have to work quite a bit-(ie the Flex Schedule)-which does blow-but I am able to manipulate it some with military days.
I would definitily walk today if we were released from mediation.
I agree with what you wrote-just was pointing out that you can make more than 30k 1st year if you work at it.
I will be voting with my feet in the near future if things don't happen.
Fly Safe
Chuck
Ps Your right I do have a nice ass-its the lunges & squats that are doing it for me.
True-I did have to work quite a bit-(ie the Flex Schedule)-which does blow-but I am able to manipulate it some with military days.
I would definitily walk today if we were released from mediation.
I agree with what you wrote-just was pointing out that you can make more than 30k 1st year if you work at it.
I will be voting with my feet in the near future if things don't happen.
Fly Safe
Chuck
Ps Your right I do have a nice ass-its the lunges & squats that are doing it for me.
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With some very basic quick math I came up with these numbers:
1754 active pilots
Using 4.6 pilots per plane (which has been the average they say they need across all fleets) X 316 aircraft = 1454 pilots needed.
By these numbers IF everyone was where they needed to be, we are really 300 pilots fat. The ultra is about 79 pilots fat alone.
91k is pushed back to feb 2005, so I could see where we don't hire for most of this year. All those FSI slots will be filled by folks already on the senority list and we would still have 80 folks for new equip and or people leaving.
1754 active pilots
Using 4.6 pilots per plane (which has been the average they say they need across all fleets) X 316 aircraft = 1454 pilots needed.
By these numbers IF everyone was where they needed to be, we are really 300 pilots fat. The ultra is about 79 pilots fat alone.
91k is pushed back to feb 2005, so I could see where we don't hire for most of this year. All those FSI slots will be filled by folks already on the senority list and we would still have 80 folks for new equip and or people leaving.
Bluepost,
You know math and logic don't exist at our comapny. If we are so over staffed as these morons keep claiming why was a page sent out to the Hawker folks claiming there were many airplanes un-crewed... go figure.
I am sure there is a logical explanation which brings me back to my original point. There is no logic at NJA. I feel like I am going in circles.
You know math and logic don't exist at our comapny. If we are so over staffed as these morons keep claiming why was a page sent out to the Hawker folks claiming there were many airplanes un-crewed... go figure.
I am sure there is a logical explanation which brings me back to my original point. There is no logic at NJA. I feel like I am going in circles.
Maybe the 800 is one of the fleets that is understaffed...doesn't mean the whole company is understaffed. I'm in the X and you can extend pretty easily from what I hear, but that isin't the case in all fleets. I hope we do hire, and I hope we do need more than the 4.6 that they have claimed for years, but I just don't see why they would pretend to not need to hire if they really did.
Most companies like to run lean and pay OT, but that may bite them if we ever get to legal job actions, unless they are planning to prevent that, which would only be good for us....maybe there is an end in sight.
Most companies like to run lean and pay OT, but that may bite them if we ever get to legal job actions, unless they are planning to prevent that, which would only be good for us....maybe there is an end in sight.
"300 Pilots fat...
I guess the 90 X, 90 Ultra, 80 XL and 40 Falcon 2000... FSI INITIAL slots will be going to current NJA pilots who will be displaced from their current seats due to the coming Furlough then..."
The ultra fleet is fat by about 80 pilots right now (haven't done the math in the other fleets) IF those 4.6 pilots per aircraft numbers are correct, which I don't see why they wouldn't be (CS uses 4.3 per and 100% of their guys are on 7and7), and 91k is still over a year away.
By your own admission there is EXACTLY 300 initial slots, and we are supposedly 200-300 fat by my math and a couple hundred by managements claims.
So lets say we take deliveries of 6 new 2000's, we would need 27 pilots in to cover those. Lets say those 27 come from the X, well the X isin't fat on guys so those have to be replaced. Lets say 15 of those to cover the X slots come from the excel, well the excel isin't fat either I don't think, and those will need to be replaced. So just from 6 aircraft, that creates the need for 67 pilots trained in a new type (just my example of course, not counting any new Xs, excels, etc which I am sure we are getting).
With the rumors of BBJ FOs, shrinking of the 1000 fleet and possibly the VII, etc, I don't see how 300 initial slots have anything to do with the need for more pilots, the need to move pilots around, but not additional pilots.
Again, I hope we do hire next month, and I am not saying we won't hire a day after the contract is signed or next fall, but for the time being I don't see any information that tells me managment is lying about the hiring. I will say that the biggest wildcard in this is the new contract. Now I know all the half empty folks are saying 2010, but my guess is summer if they don't lock horns on $$$. If the contract comes this year how much 7and7? What is the alt schedule? How many quarterly seams if any? Any tightning up of sick day use? More vacation time? Those are the real variables. So I temper my projection with the statement that as long as the contract DOESN'T come this year, there won't be hiring till fall.
How much will 91k add? Who knows, but I wouldn't think more than 1 pilot per airplane but again, just a guess, but are we even going 91K or will it be 135? Anyone that thinks either of those is going to force an increase of 2.5 pilots per AC is an idiot in my opinion, it's only scheduled rest for crying outloud...we did it post 9/11. At 5 pilots per AC thats still 1575 needed for 315 AC which is the last number I have seen. We have 1750 active, that is still 175 extra.
Why the extending in some fleets like the hawker? Could be a ton of reasons, quarter seams, flu (who isin't sick these days?), training, burning off of unused hours by owners, who knows.
I just don't want to give guys who are waiting for a job here false hope. I have several friends that are waiting for the hiring to start again, but I don't want to be leading people to think something is closer then it is, and then they start passing up other jobs etc.
I guess the 90 X, 90 Ultra, 80 XL and 40 Falcon 2000... FSI INITIAL slots will be going to current NJA pilots who will be displaced from their current seats due to the coming Furlough then..."
The ultra fleet is fat by about 80 pilots right now (haven't done the math in the other fleets) IF those 4.6 pilots per aircraft numbers are correct, which I don't see why they wouldn't be (CS uses 4.3 per and 100% of their guys are on 7and7), and 91k is still over a year away.
By your own admission there is EXACTLY 300 initial slots, and we are supposedly 200-300 fat by my math and a couple hundred by managements claims.
So lets say we take deliveries of 6 new 2000's, we would need 27 pilots in to cover those. Lets say those 27 come from the X, well the X isin't fat on guys so those have to be replaced. Lets say 15 of those to cover the X slots come from the excel, well the excel isin't fat either I don't think, and those will need to be replaced. So just from 6 aircraft, that creates the need for 67 pilots trained in a new type (just my example of course, not counting any new Xs, excels, etc which I am sure we are getting).
With the rumors of BBJ FOs, shrinking of the 1000 fleet and possibly the VII, etc, I don't see how 300 initial slots have anything to do with the need for more pilots, the need to move pilots around, but not additional pilots.
Again, I hope we do hire next month, and I am not saying we won't hire a day after the contract is signed or next fall, but for the time being I don't see any information that tells me managment is lying about the hiring. I will say that the biggest wildcard in this is the new contract. Now I know all the half empty folks are saying 2010, but my guess is summer if they don't lock horns on $$$. If the contract comes this year how much 7and7? What is the alt schedule? How many quarterly seams if any? Any tightning up of sick day use? More vacation time? Those are the real variables. So I temper my projection with the statement that as long as the contract DOESN'T come this year, there won't be hiring till fall.
How much will 91k add? Who knows, but I wouldn't think more than 1 pilot per airplane but again, just a guess, but are we even going 91K or will it be 135? Anyone that thinks either of those is going to force an increase of 2.5 pilots per AC is an idiot in my opinion, it's only scheduled rest for crying outloud...we did it post 9/11. At 5 pilots per AC thats still 1575 needed for 315 AC which is the last number I have seen. We have 1750 active, that is still 175 extra.
Why the extending in some fleets like the hawker? Could be a ton of reasons, quarter seams, flu (who isin't sick these days?), training, burning off of unused hours by owners, who knows.
I just don't want to give guys who are waiting for a job here false hope. I have several friends that are waiting for the hiring to start again, but I don't want to be leading people to think something is closer then it is, and then they start passing up other jobs etc.
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