NJA Interview/Hire/Class Timeline

[jonjuan]

The CBA grants senior pilots the right to do whatever they can hold, just remember there are a lot of young guys here eagerly waiting to start a family, feed a family, etc. A lot of us took it up the rear without pay protection while junior guys upgraded for pre-contract bypass, etc. It would be nice if a few guys gave a dang to return the favor.

Just like the three musketeers "All for one and one for all" except it's now "All for the top 50% and the top 50% for the top 50%." Where's wife when we need her wisdom and support? Management has more leverage than you want to believe. No family for you-NEXT.

 

[gunfyter]

It does not matter what senior pilots bid.

If there are 3000 pilots... 2000 will be captains and 1000 will be FO's.

If you are #2600... you will have to wait till there are 3900 pilots on the property before you make Captain. 1300 more pilots or 4 to 5 yrs... at the rate we hire.

Unless All the senior pilots decide to bid SIC.

 

[cathaywannabe]

It does not matter what senior pilots bid.

I disagree with this. I think if new PIC slots were left for SICs only there would be significantly more movement of F/Os, at least in the short term.

I guess it's O.K. to ask 1st year F/O's not to bid captain during CBA negotiations, but to ask senior PICs to cool their jets for a year is out of the question. Strong union!

In any event, it's gonna be a while before new hires upgrade. As Stewart on Mad TV says, "often the truth is devastating".

In addition to longer upgrades, it's important to consider the domicile system and what effect that has on potentially fragmenting future negotiations and solidarity with a increasingly disenfranchised "junior" pilot group. Take a look at the attrition lists and you'll find the overwhelming majority of pilots that leave NJA are newbies.


There is no doubt in my mind these problems can be solved in the future, the question is will they? It's difficult to trust the people that created the problem...chances are the same people that created it aren't going to fix it.

 

[gunfyter]

If the company needs one more Ultra Captain:


If I bid the Ultra, it opens a seat in the Falcon. An ultra Captain gets the Falcon and that opens the seat back up in the Ultra.

An SIC gets the Ultra PIC slot now.

It took two training slots to make one ultra Captain.

If I do not bid the Ultra... the ultra PIC does not move out ... so no new Slot opens up.

An SIC bids Ultra PIC

Now... It takes only one training slot.


If anything ... the movement of PICs from type to type INCREASES the TOTAL requirement for PIC upgrades fleetwide ... BECAUSE more people are in the training pipelines and not available for line flying.

So PICs switching aircraft types is helpful in getting more and more junior pilots an upgrade.

 

[Fozzy]

I disagree with this. I think if new PIC slots were left for SICs only there would be significantly more movement of F/Os, at least in the short term.

I guess it's O.K. to ask 1st year F/O's not to bid captain during CBA negotiations, but to ask senior PICs to cool their jets for a year is out of the question. Strong union!

In any event, it's gonna be a while before new hires upgrade. As Stewart on Mad TV says, "often the truth is devastating".

In addition to longer upgrades, it's important to consider the domicile system and what effect that has on potentially fragmenting future negotiations and solidarity with a increasingly disenfranchised "junior" pilot group. Take a look at the attrition lists and you'll find the overwhelming majority of pilots that leave NJA are newbies.


There is no doubt in my mind these problems can be solved in the future, the question is will they? It's difficult to trust the people that created the problem...chances are the same people that created it aren't going to fix it.

Cathay,
You do know you are a union pilot right? It is a place where seniorty is everything. Ok, the bypass movement a few years ago. Many knew it was going to come back and sting. Well here it is. FO's helped FO's to get more money. Plain and simple. Nobody knew when the CBA would be done. Now we have more guys bitching for the same type of setup, seniorty be damned! Sorry, you get a seniorty number like everyone else. Sucks now? Sure it can, but that is life as a pilot. When your seniorty can hold Captain, it will. Plain and simple. I will not, and I will not ever expect someone to give up something that their seniorty would provide.

Now HBA. THAT IS THE COMPANY'S BABY! Yes we voted it in. Because the pilots here knew it was/is/will always be flawed. We all took a gamble that it would self correct. And if guys keep jumping ship or not apply/take the job, it just might! Direct your anger at the one who deserves it. If you feel you must vent try your P2P rep.

I guess what we need to be telling all pilots looking at NJA that it will be FOUR years MIN before upgrade. I was saying hope for 3 and expect 4 on this very message board. Or at least I think I was.

Sorry the money is tight. I was in your shoes for 3+ years before the CBA was signed. With a 17 day schedule, 4.5 commute. Walked uphill both ways also. Don't take this the wrong way, I am on your side and will NOT support a contract that does not get HBA for all, but I doubt you will like me much after this post.

 

[RTRHD]

I have said it before. Why don't yall just give up on NJI, and there could be HBA for everyone now. Don't try to say its about broken promises that was not RTS's fault it was Gulfstreams.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I have said it before. Why don't yall just give up on NJI, and there could be HBA for everyone now. Don't try to say its about broken promises that was not RTS's fault it was Gulfstreams.

Ooooh. Slick...

RT,

Are you floating an offer outide of negotiations officially or are you talking out of your ass?

Should I alert the MEC?

 

[RTRHD]

Ooooh. Slick...

RT,

Are you floating an offer outide of negotiations officially or are you talking out of your ass?

Should I alert the MEC?

Just talking out my asss. But I bet its doable, but I don't know crap.

 

[B +]

It does not matter what senior pilots bid.

If there are 3000 pilots... 2000 will be captains and 1000 will be FO's.

If you are #2600... you will have to wait till there are 3900 pilots on the property before you make Captain. 1300 more pilots or 4 to 5 yrs... at the rate we hire.

Unless All the senior pilots decide to bid SIC.

You are correct gunfyter. Actually there will always be a few senior guys that stay in the right seat for quality of life and/or avoiding the responsibility of being PIC and that will allow a junior pilot to upgrade a bit sooner.

At the airlines you could figure that when you were in the top 60% or the list you could hold a captain slot. A NJA they tend to have more captains and you see two captains flying together quite often. The most junior captain at NJA is usually right at 65% mark of the seniority list. (excluding the captains that got the fourth stripe because of the bypass situation)

 

[cathaywannabe]

Cathay,
You do know you are a union pilot right? It is a place where seniorty is everything. Ok, the bypass movement a few years ago. Many knew it was going to come back and sting. Well here it is. FO's helped FO's to get more money. Plain and simple. Nobody knew when the CBA would be done. Now we have more guys bitching for the same type of setup, seniorty be danged! Sorry, you get a seniorty number like everyone else. Sucks now? Sure it can, but that is life as a pilot. When your seniorty can hold Captain, it will. Plain and simple. I will not, and I will not ever expect someone to give up something that their seniorty would provide.

Now HBA. THAT IS THE COMPANY'S BABY! Yes we voted it in. Because the pilots here knew it was/is/will always be flawed. We all took a gamble that it would self correct. And if guys keep jumping ship or not apply/take the job, it just might! Direct your anger at the one who deserves it. If you feel you must vent try your P2P rep.

I guess what we need to be telling all pilots looking at NJA that it will be FOUR years MIN before upgrade. I was saying hope for 3 and expect 4 on this very message board. Or at least I think I was.

Sorry the money is tight. I was in your shoes for 3+ years before the CBA was signed. With a 17 day schedule, 4.5 commute. Walked uphill both ways also. Don't take this the wrong way, I am on your side and will NOT support a contract that does not get HBA for all, but I doubt you will like me much after this post.

I like you, and yeah I know I'm a union pilot. My post kind of hijacked this thread so I'm not going to respond anymore in this thread...in any event, I will agree with you that new hires should expect at least several years to upgrade and also should plan on remaining on their assigned domicile forever (at least, until things change).

Good luck...

 

[RNObased]

I disagree with this. I think if new PIC slots were left for SICs only there would be significantly more movement of F/Os, at least in the short term.

I guess it's O.K. to ask 1st year F/O's not to bid captain during CBA negotiations, but to ask senior PICs to cool their jets for a year is out of the question. Strong union!

In any event, it's gonna be a while before new hires upgrade. As Stewart on Mad TV says, "often the truth is devastating".

In addition to longer upgrades, it's important to consider the domicile system and what effect that has on potentially fragmenting future negotiations and solidarity with a increasingly disenfranchised "junior" pilot group. Take a look at the attrition lists and you'll find the overwhelming majority of pilots that leave NJA are newbies.


There is no doubt in my mind these problems can be solved in the future, the question is will they? It's difficult to trust the people that created the problem...chances are the same people that created it aren't going to fix it.

So Cathay,
Using your logic stream I should have passed up the class 3 capt bid so someone junior to me can bid into it???? Are you high???

I'm sure at the other places you worked this happened all the time.

I'm sorry that you are a FO but don't blame the senior capts for your issues. You could have possibly came here when we did, but chose not to.

As for the guys leaving after the signing bonus, it is happening. Not as fast as I thought it would but it is happening.

 

[fischman]

I have said it before. Why don't yall just give up on NJI, and there could be HBA for everyone now. Don't try to say its about broken promises that was not RTS's fault it was Gulfstreams.

Two words: STRONG UNION.

That's why

 

[RTRHD]

Two words: STRONG UNION.

That's why

Enjoy the Drive

 

[fischman]

Enjoy the Drive

25 minutes isn't that bad. But thanks.

 

[Ultra Grump]

The CBA grants senior pilots the right to do whatever they can hold, just remember there are a lot of young guys here eagerly waiting to start a family, feed a family, etc. A lot of us took it up the rear without pay protection while junior guys upgraded for pre-contract bypass, etc. It would be nice if a few guys gave a dang to return the favor.

Well, everyone else threw in their 2 cents, so here's mine:

During the bypass drive, the only people that could have held those captain slots were already PICs or were senior FOs. Those few people (12 slots in the 2 400xp PIC bypass bids?) are the only ones who had a right to bitch about "taking it up the rear without pay protection," and all have since upgraded, or could have and passed it up. If you were not senior at that point, off seatlock, then under normal circumstances you would not have gotten that upgrade anyway.