NJA Interview/Hire/Class Timeline

[FLYLOW22]

I know you can't wait to do it again...:beer:

YeeemmmmmYYeeeaahHHmmmmmmmmmmmmYYEEAAAASSS!!!!!

 

[acaTerry]

SO down here at the high 1900's I'm looking at HOW LONG!!?? BTW, where are all those guys who were gonna resign at second bonus check!? C'mon man, I want the raise!!!
:beer:

 

[NJA bound]

SO down here at the high 1900's I'm looking at HOW LONG!!?? BTW, where are all those guys who were gonna resign at second bonus check!? C'mon man, I want the raise!!!
:beer:

You must be close for upgrade in the Beechjet or Oncore, there can't be more than 20 or so senior to you bidding them.

 

[Fozzy]

You must be close for upgrade in the Beechjet or Oncore, there can't be more than 20 or so senior to you bidding them.

3/6/07 Award. The junior man was 1817 in the CE560. So if he is #1900 he as about 83 pilots ahead of him. I am sure there are a few (<10) captains in that mix. So he needs approx 80 captain spots in the 560/400 to open. The XL, 650 and 680 will most likely go to current Captains. But this is just a guess.

 

[cathaywannabe]

I have been here over 2 years and it looks as though there are still at least 30 pilots ahead of me bidding into the two most junior aircraft. I'm hoping to get a chance to upgrade at some point this year although this is taking longer than I had hoped.

Three "upgrade" issues: 1) upgrades have slowed (especially in the smaller aircraft), 2) there wasn't an exodus after the second bonus check, and, 3) often senior PICs are moving into smaller aircraft (i.e. Citation X to XL/XLS).

The CBA grants senior pilots the right to do whatever they can hold, just remember there are a lot of young guys here eagerly waiting to start a family, feed a family, etc. A lot of us took it up the rear without pay protection while junior guys upgraded for pre-contract bypass, etc. It would be nice if a few guys gave a damn to return the favor.

 

[jonjuan]

The CBA grants senior pilots the right to do whatever they can hold, just remember there are a lot of young guys here eagerly waiting to start a family, feed a family, etc. A lot of us took it up the rear without pay protection while junior guys upgraded for pre-contract bypass, etc. It would be nice if a few guys gave a dang to return the favor.

Just like the three musketeers "All for one and one for all" except it's now "All for the top 50% and the top 50% for the top 50%." Where's wife when we need her wisdom and support? Management has more leverage than you want to believe. No family for you-NEXT.

 

[gunfyter]

It does not matter what senior pilots bid.

If there are 3000 pilots... 2000 will be captains and 1000 will be FO's.

If you are #2600... you will have to wait till there are 3900 pilots on the property before you make Captain. 1300 more pilots or 4 to 5 yrs... at the rate we hire.

Unless All the senior pilots decide to bid SIC.

 

[cathaywannabe]

It does not matter what senior pilots bid.

I disagree with this. I think if new PIC slots were left for SICs only there would be significantly more movement of F/Os, at least in the short term.

I guess it's O.K. to ask 1st year F/O's not to bid captain during CBA negotiations, but to ask senior PICs to cool their jets for a year is out of the question. Strong union!

In any event, it's gonna be a while before new hires upgrade. As Stewart on Mad TV says, "often the truth is devastating".

In addition to longer upgrades, it's important to consider the domicile system and what effect that has on potentially fragmenting future negotiations and solidarity with a increasingly disenfranchised "junior" pilot group. Take a look at the attrition lists and you'll find the overwhelming majority of pilots that leave NJA are newbies.


There is no doubt in my mind these problems can be solved in the future, the question is will they? It's difficult to trust the people that created the problem...chances are the same people that created it aren't going to fix it.

 

[gunfyter]

If the company needs one more Ultra Captain:


If I bid the Ultra, it opens a seat in the Falcon. An ultra Captain gets the Falcon and that opens the seat back up in the Ultra.

An SIC gets the Ultra PIC slot now.

It took two training slots to make one ultra Captain.

If I do not bid the Ultra... the ultra PIC does not move out ... so no new Slot opens up.

An SIC bids Ultra PIC

Now... It takes only one training slot.


If anything ... the movement of PICs from type to type INCREASES the TOTAL requirement for PIC upgrades fleetwide ... BECAUSE more people are in the training pipelines and not available for line flying.

So PICs switching aircraft types is helpful in getting more and more junior pilots an upgrade.

 

[Fozzy]

I disagree with this. I think if new PIC slots were left for SICs only there would be significantly more movement of F/Os, at least in the short term.

I guess it's O.K. to ask 1st year F/O's not to bid captain during CBA negotiations, but to ask senior PICs to cool their jets for a year is out of the question. Strong union!

In any event, it's gonna be a while before new hires upgrade. As Stewart on Mad TV says, "often the truth is devastating".

In addition to longer upgrades, it's important to consider the domicile system and what effect that has on potentially fragmenting future negotiations and solidarity with a increasingly disenfranchised "junior" pilot group. Take a look at the attrition lists and you'll find the overwhelming majority of pilots that leave NJA are newbies.


There is no doubt in my mind these problems can be solved in the future, the question is will they? It's difficult to trust the people that created the problem...chances are the same people that created it aren't going to fix it.

Cathay,
You do know you are a union pilot right? It is a place where seniorty is everything. Ok, the bypass movement a few years ago. Many knew it was going to come back and sting. Well here it is. FO's helped FO's to get more money. Plain and simple. Nobody knew when the CBA would be done. Now we have more guys bitching for the same type of setup, seniorty be damned! Sorry, you get a seniorty number like everyone else. Sucks now? Sure it can, but that is life as a pilot. When your seniorty can hold Captain, it will. Plain and simple. I will not, and I will not ever expect someone to give up something that their seniorty would provide.

Now HBA. THAT IS THE COMPANY'S BABY! Yes we voted it in. Because the pilots here knew it was/is/will always be flawed. We all took a gamble that it would self correct. And if guys keep jumping ship or not apply/take the job, it just might! Direct your anger at the one who deserves it. If you feel you must vent try your P2P rep.

I guess what we need to be telling all pilots looking at NJA that it will be FOUR years MIN before upgrade. I was saying hope for 3 and expect 4 on this very message board. Or at least I think I was.

Sorry the money is tight. I was in your shoes for 3+ years before the CBA was signed. With a 17 day schedule, 4.5 commute. Walked uphill both ways also. Don't take this the wrong way, I am on your side and will NOT support a contract that does not get HBA for all, but I doubt you will like me much after this post.