New UAL/CAL pass travel program announced

[ArcadiaMaxima]

I like the SWA model.....first come first served....if your family is with you they get higher priority than basic non rev without the employee with them or buddy pass person. If the ramper gets there first he/she wins.....there is a trick to win but I wont revel that here because I have group of 5 going somewhere soon and might need the advantage......I hate the senority crap....mostly because I am junior.....the guy above me didn't earn anything except his parents got drunk a year earlier than mine

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[UC35Pilot]

There appears to be a misunderstanding. The following is an extract from the Q and A provided to employees. BL – Family members NOT traveling with employee will travel at a lower priority. If traveling with employee…then they travel at the same priority. Commuters…you’ll be ok. See top 3 (10 total) boarding priorities below.

Boarding Priority A: Travel using a vacation pass by:
o Employees, retirees and their accompanied eligible pass riders
o Unaccompanied spouse/domestic partner* of an employee or retiree, and their accompanied eligible pass riders
In addition, up to two regular buddy pass riders and unlimited extended family buddy pass riders can travel at Boarding Priority A when accompanied by an employee or spouse/domestic partner using a vacation pass.
* Enrolled friends do not have the same boarding priority as spouses or domestic partners in these cases.

Boarding Priority B: Travel by the following pass riders when not using a vacation pass:
o Employees and their accompanied eligible pass riders
o Employees’ unaccompanied spouses/domestic partners* and their accompanied eligible pass riders
In addition, up to two regular buddy pass riders and unlimited extended family buddy pass riders can travel at Boarding Priority B when accompanied by an employee or their spouse/domestic partner* using a personal pass.
* Enrolled friends do not have the same boarding priority as spouses or domestic partners in these cases.

Boarding Priority C: Travel by the following pass riders when not using a vacation pass:
o Retirees and their accompanied eligible pass riders
o Retirees’ unaccompanied spouses/domestic partners* and their accompanied eligible pass riders

Unfortunately, I haven’t found any mention of utilization longevity and Military Leave of Absence. Currently, CAL cuts off your travel benefits after 2yrs while on MLA. Not good. Hope that changes.

 

[JohnQ]

Not that I care about UAL/CAL's policies, but to clarify:

- At DAL the immediate family members (spouse and kids) get the same priority as any other employee, whether or not they are actually with the employee in the first place. They also have the right to select a higher than normal priority up to six times a year (as all employees do).

- If a buddy pass rider or non-dependent child (i.e. kid older than 23 and out of college) travels solo, they are in a lower hierarchy than active employees on the standby list (as it should be). If, and only if, they are on the same listing as the active employee, then their priority is bumped up to the same status as the active employee they are traveling with. In this instance, however, the active employee can only use the "normal" standby priority and can not use his 6-times-a-year higher status.

- Within those constraints, it is strictly by date of hire of the employee that determines who gets on, subject to various hierarchies (such as all retirees come behind all active employees, parents come after active employees and family, but before buddy pass riders, etc)

 

[Dan Roman]

"gramps" ....Classic!

Had to laugh at that. He doesn't know me, but he had to throw in an insult to accompany the "facts" he made up. Right out of the Fox news playbook!

 

[Dan Roman]

Dan you might want to re read the thread. If you are accompanying your wife and family you should travel at your boarding priority no debate there.

However if your Wife and Kids are non-revving on a flexible schedule without you (the Employee);
Should they really have boarding priority over an Employee?

Then consider the fact that the Employee they bump is a commuting crew member.

The commuting crew member isn't pleasure riding like your family. They are going to work. They are an Employee going to work to generate revenue for the company.

Now this wonderful Management team (CAL) last year displaced 300 pilot positions from EWR to IAH. Mgmt. said "it was to give commuters better options and connections out of IAH?" The reality it was to mitigate the voting power of a very unified EWR base. Over 60 Jr. pilots who bit the bullet and moved to the New York area were displaced to IAH. After residing to the fact that EWR would be the Jr. base and it was best to move their families to the Jr. base Mgmt. threw them a curve ball. So now IAH is the Jr. base and flying out of the IAH base is forced thru EWR. On the 737 and 757 IAH pairings there are lots of EWR overnights. Some 4 day trips out of IAH even layover 2 nights out of 3 in EWR.

So moving for this company is not really a good decision for Jr. folks. At CAL we have seen LAX, DEN, IAD, GSO, SEA, HNL and other pilot domiciles close. In addition to EWR realignment, CLE has shrunk by 2/3. The best advice I ever got from Captains I have flown with at CAL was to live where you need to. If you need to live close to family then do it. Don't move to a base a count on it being there. It was unimaginable that EWR would be more Sr. then IAH. Thanks Mgmt.

I can totally see the rational behind it from the displaced crews deal. That's a good point. On further thought I would think displaced crewmembers should deserve a sort of company business priority on boarding when going to work from their old domicle to their new one.

 

[IBNAV8R]

Any word on "membership" fees?

 

[tmac3333]

Not true about mil leave and passes. I've been on military leave for 3.5 years and still get vacation passes added annually at CAL as if I was still active. Just pass rode 2 weeks ago with no issue on vacation pass with my daughter.

 

[UC35Pilot]

Really? Are you EWR based? Because the IAH 73 CP, Capt Rivera, told me that I have exceeded the two year MilLeave pass limits and am no longer authorized to travel until I return. I will contact you privately to discuss more. It is published in the pass and travel doc's.

 

[Fly4life]

Does anyone know how this affects furloughees? I wonder if we will maintian our date of hire seniority for boarding priority? I am a 2000 new hire. When I use my passes now as a furloughee I show a seniorty date of July 2000 and Priority 8A.

 

[tmac3333]

To close the loop...vacation passes OK, personal passes stop after 2 years.

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

Does anyone know how this affects furloughees? I wonder if we will maintian our date of hire seniority for boarding priority? I am a 2000 new hire. When I use my passes now as a furloughee I show a seniorty date of July 2000 and Priority 8A.

At CAL, they adjust your board date of hire to the # of active years of service. I.E. Hired 1-1-07 , Furloughed 1-1-08 , Recalled 1-1-2010, You would show 1-1-09 board date on 1-1-11. Not sure what will happen since both airlines do it differently.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Well, guess what? Not EVERY retired employee was a pilot pulling 6 figures when then banged out. Many were just regular airline workers making standard middle class wages. And spare me the argument "well, if they wanted to make the money they should have been pilots" B.S. That's not what it's about.

And take a second guess, they lost their retirement, as well as had their ESOP go down the drain as well. So the idea of "gummers buying tickets" simply isn't a feasible option for many. In some cases, it's simply NOT to travel at all due to the lack of a benefit they thought would be there when they retired, on an income they thought would be there when they left.

I'm NOT saying that the retirees should have gone to the top, just making the point that you think EVERY retired airline employee has the money to buy tickets whenever they may want to travel/visit family.

Never ceases to amaze me what selfish pricks pilots can be.

So explain to me where I mentioned 'the ramper or gate agent should pony up'? My post is in the MAJOR's section, not the dispatcher's section or anywhere else. So, it appears you're just putting words in my mouth and generalizing where I didn't. So who's the prick? I'm talking about retired UAL and CAL pilots and their families. Most realize non-revving is pathetic and not worth the stress. I just buy tickets. The most expensive one was 235 bucks to the islands. If you can't buy that after 25 years as a major airline pilot, regardless of retirement, I'm not the problem. Your financial well being is yours. I'm tired of being blamed for my hard work and sacrifice to 'spread' the wealth to other employees that feel their entitiled to my benefits or entitled to my pay without working for it. Should the lav dumper enjoy travel benefits that I enjoy? Please. That's the problem with this country. Peace love and happiness......seems to trickle one way.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Well said.

Ya, perfect.

 

[dojetdriver]

I'm tired of being blamed for my hard work and sacrifice to 'spread' the wealth to other employees that feel their entitiled to my benefits or entitled to my pay without working for it. Should the lav dumper enjoy travel benefits that I enjoy? Please. That's the problem with this country. Peace love and happiness......seems to trickle one way.

Hmmm, interesting. So the other than pilot airline employees SHOULDN'T have a travel benefit what so ever? I'm NOT putting words in your mouth, YOU just typed it out above. Seems as if you'd like to divide up the travel benefits into a social class system.

So who's the prick?

Based on what you typed? You are.

Your financial well being is yours.

Indeed, it is. I ALSO hope you're telling that to EVERY over 60/gummer/high 5/ND you fly with that says he "needs the money". Too bad if they were too stupid to save, if banked on their define benefit fund, had too many wives, couldn't keep their dIck in their pants, bought too many houses, whatever.

 

[Flopgut]

Well, guess what? Not EVERY retired employee was a pilot pulling 6 figures when then banged out. Many were just regular airline workers making standard middle class wages. And spare me the argument "well, if they wanted to make the money they should have been pilots" B.S. That's not what it's about.

And take a second guess, they lost their retirement, as well as had their ESOP go down the drain as well. So the idea of "gummers buying tickets" simply isn't a feasible option for many. In some cases, it's simply NOT to travel at all due to the lack of a benefit they thought would be there when they retired, on an income they thought would be there when they left.

I'm NOT saying that the retirees should have gone to the top, just making the point that you think EVERY retired airline employee has the money to buy tickets whenever they may want to travel/visit family.

Never ceases to amaze me what selfish pricks pilots can be.

That's a really crappy post. And it's a lot more indicative of the entitlement mentality and the hostility that exists among older workers than "what pricks pilots can be".

Buy a ticket every once in a while people. Go through the whole process of shopping, selecting, paying for and riding on a fare. How can you expect any customer to do it when as an employee you think it's so tragic?!

The older workers in this business have had it too good for too long. This business is not a cradle to grave endeavor, but that's what the oldsters want. So the old guy lost a few million dollars. So?! We've ALL lost a few million dollars. The old guy's money isn't any more special than anybody else's. Ageism, seniority aggression have gone too far and have to stop. If someone is senior to someone then that's all that needs to be stated. We've got way too many Dan Roman types who want to spout off about "20 years" this, or "25 years" that and the other guy's only got one year. Get over the whole I've been around here forever and I better feel special attitude.

I swear, it's as though being senior for some guys [Roman] is not enough. The junior guys have to be suffering for them to be happy.

We get 20% off ticket prices guys. Just buy em and let the dregs like Roman duke it out with their "years"....

 

[Andy]

At CAL, they adjust your board date of hire to the # of active years of service. I.E. Hired 1-1-07 , Furloughed 1-1-08 , Recalled 1-1-2010, You would show 1-1-09 board date on 1-1-11. Not sure what will happen since both airlines do it differently.

Furloughees get screwed again. Here's what it says: Co-workers will board by actual years of company service within their boarding priority level.

No surprise there.

 

[clr4theapch]

Flopgut,

Your point is well taken.. I'm reminded every day by my own 25 and 27 year old sons about the "me" generation of today.. instant gratification, got to have it now syndrome.. you have not yet traveled the road these retired guys have.. I have not either, but I suspect I am closer to that road than you are..

You should ask yourself, how you might feel about this if you were them... They don't have any ability to change what they were supposed to get, "earned" when they were active pilots and when those planned on benefits change they rightfully get upset... Their years on this planet are much more numbered than yours..

On the other hand your active and have your whole career in front of you and have choices that can still affect your retirement.. So you are working now based on things you will "expect" to receive when you retire... So you see life runs full circle... and your day will come when your not happy about the things you were promised but have little control over...

 

[Flopgut]

I was 17 and the oldest of 4 kids when my Dad lost his airline pension. Actually, he lost his job [income], our health insurance, and his fully-funded pension on the same afternoon. I can still remember the day; There has always been a before and after. Additionally, I'm pretty senior. I've flown captain and FO at my airline and I'm well acquainted with both halves of the list. I'm sick of hearing the older workers complain about losing their pension. I lost mine too! But workers have lost pensions before, I know, because it happened in my house! I can remember when it did, and not one of these soon to be retired types gave a rat's ass. Nor did they bother to cover themselves in case it happened to them. Look, we changed a 40 year old rule so these guys could get some relief. But enough is enough! It's almost over for them and they need to go quietly and be happy with what they got.

As I said, I've flown with the new guys as captain. They have endured enough. Even with the loss of pensions the old guys have had they are still going to have made more money than the junior guys. We literally changed retirement age so old guys can maintain a pretty lavish lifestye while the junior workers and their spouses and kids are going without some basics. It's sickening.

 

[clr4theapch]

nough said.. life goes on..

 

[eaglesview]

nough said.. life goes on..

Thank you. Policy is writtten. It's better than what we had before. It's not perfect, move on.