New trend for AirTran negotiations?

[airline#5]

Industry standard for FO's is >65% of Capt. pay on average. AirTran is <55%. All but a few of the Capt's I fly with could give a sh1t about this fact. It's like everywhere I've been, junior people getting bent over.

 

[Lear70]

Nice job, Lear. Maybe I'm in the minority, but FL717 and I talked about this alot. If you want to be a decent Captain here, you'd better care about your F/Os.

Maybe what I said didn't come across right (or I'm misunderstanding you), but I'm not saying it SHOULD be a "Captain's airline", that's just the impression that I've gotten since I've worked here.

It's been perpetuated by more than one MEC member I've spoken to who don't seem to want to talk much about F/O pay increases, but simply say "Everyone here will be a Captain in 2 or 3 years, don't worry about it".

I agree 100% with you, this is the first time I've been an F/O in almost a decade and I absolutely agree the CA's need to take care of their F/O's. I just hope we don't get thrown under the bus like the CURRENT MEC PROPOSED RATES are doing.

I want my F/Os to be as psyched as they can be to be working here--part of it for selfish reasons--That way, the odds are better that they'll be in a better mood, and more likely to keep us from really screwing something up! That whole CRM thing.

My number one priority here is not to die. Seriously. One serious screwup could end the game forever.

My second priority is to provide for my family. Third is to keep my certificate. Fourth is to stay out of Floy's office (and retain my job). Lastly is to provide on-time performance with good customer service.

All those things are going to ensure that I keep my CA out of trouble. It keeps me out of trouble, too, so it's kind of a self-preservation thing.

That said, I also approach this job as a co-captain, not as an F/O. I take personal responsibility to make sure that the paperwork is done right, customer service issues are taken care of, as well as my F/O duties.

If I don't like something being done, I'm gonna speak up. I'm going to fly the aircraft as if I'm the Captain unless and until I'm overruled (and even then if it was a safety of flight issue we couldn't resolve and the CA was about to do something stupid I'd do what needed to be done anyway), and I'm going to do my job 100%. Hopefully that means we BOTH have a good time and go home happy (and so far that approach seems to be working).

Other than that, I also agree that a happy crew is a quick and easy trip is quicker and easier back home.

Captains who don't think that F/O pay rates aren't important are making a statement that I don't agree with.

Oh yeah, Go Steelers!

I'm not so sure about the last sentence, but everything else sounds great to me!

Oh yeah, GO COWBOYS! imp:

 

[Lear70]

I emailed not only Allen, but the entire BOD and both lawyers . . . . did not receive a single acknowledgement.

I am starting to think that the time may have arrived to consider national representation . . . . ALPA is not likely be voted in, but the Teamsters are a definite possibility. . . . .

It would be poetic justice if that was the result of the last 2 years of buffoonery . . . and that development just might make it worthwhile to hang around for the next 20 years.

Hmmm... that's a tough one.

Like I said back during the election: show me a GOOD, VIABLE alternative, and I'll vote for it.

I don't like the way things are being done. But I also haven't been shown a good alternative.

I also haven't been here long enough to do much convincing of the senior pilots. Funny how respect for new leadership goes hand-in-hand with longevity.

If someone will step up to the plate, explain their plans, have a crew of good people with them that are going to make up the new MEC, and provide real leadership in a new, positive direction for ALL seniority groups, I'd gladly cast a vote their way, even if it was ALPA.

To me, the name of the union isn't NEARLY as important as the PILOTS who are leading it. The RLA works the same for ALL unions; it's the leaders providing the direction, negotiating your contract, motivating your pilots, and fighting your grievances who make the difference.

 

[mnboyev]

No...its the pilots...

 

[freightdogfred]

Out of curiousity, how many of you FO's complaining about pay have gone to your MEC's office to complain in person? (ie GETTING INVOLVED?)

 

[Steeler Fan]

Maybe what I said didn't come across right (or I'm misunderstanding you), but I'm not saying it SHOULD be a "Captain's airline", that's just the impression that I've gotten since I've worked here.


Other than that, I also agree that a happy crew is a quick and easy trip is quicker and easier back home.

I'm not so sure about the last sentence, but everything else sounds great to me!

Oh yeah, GO COWBOYS! imp:

I typed a lenghty response to this, but when I went to post it, all was deleted. Oh well here goes.

Captain's Airline-- Anyone who thinks that treating F/Os like crap because that's how they were treated is a moron!

F/O pay -- If we're all going to upgrade in 2-3 years, what's so hard about having better pay F/O rates beyond year 4? Maybe we'd have less attrition that way, which would reduce costs and enhance our job security.

Captain's Airline -- I'm supposed to help you, as an F/O prepare to be an AirTran Captain. In that regard, I'd be an idiot to try to pidgeon hole you into flying the airplane "my way". Just be standard (AOM/FOM/FAR stuff). Other than that, if it's technique, as long as it gets the job done, have at it. I hate it when you have to have a scouting report for individual Captains.

You fly with one Capt who says "this is the way you need to do it!" Then on your next trip, the next Capt says "no, don't do it that way, do it this way". How frustrating is that? Every trip, a new set of rules. It sux when the guy meets you and asks "hey man, what things are you particular about?" I start wondering who they've been flying with.

If I don't let you be you, then I'll never learn anything.

I flew with some original Allegheny Airline guys who had a PHD in "Captain's Airline". It was no fun (mainly because they were not standard and expected me to morph to their non-standard ways).


Oh yeah, other than the Dallas Cowboys thing, I agree with your entire post.

What do the Cowboys and summer vacation have in common?

NO CLASS!

 

[Lear70]

No...its the pilots...

I always hate to hear this one.

The fact of the matter is that pilots will always be loathe to get involved unless they absolutely have to.

The only thing a line pilot needs to do is show up to work, do their job, fly the contract, stay informed of what the Association is doing, voice their opinions/concerns, and vote when the time comes.

The volunteers bear the burden of of the work to better everyone's QOL. That's why they volunteer and that's what we elect them for.

Not everyone can be the Indian Chief, or even the Vice-Indian Chief.

 

[Lear70]

Oh yeah, other than the Dallas Cowboys thing, I agree with your entire post.

What do the Cowboys and summer vacation have in common?

NO CLASS!

HEY!

I didn't go dissing your Steelers, don't you be bashing my 'Boys.

Seriously, there's only one person on that team that gives everyone else a bad name. I thought they did quite well this season, although they deserved to lose after that playoff performance. What a joke!

 

[mnboyev]

I will make sure someone talks to you guys...did you email the right folks at the National? If you send me a pm I'll follow up... Just a bit of history..The last contract's first TA was voted down...due to FO rates.. I encourage you to call the office....We certainly don't need a change in union leadership at this juncture.....Respecfully

 

[Steeler Fan]

I will make sure someone talks to you guys...did you email the right folks at the National? If you send me a pm I'll follow up... Just a bit of history..The last contract's first TA was voted down...due to FO rates.. I encourage you to call the office....We certainly don't need a change in union leadership at this juncture.....Respecfully

In fairness to the union guys, EV, you're right. I heard these F/O rates were alot better than what was here last contract. My point about changing the midset that F/O rates past year 3 don't matter is still valid to alot of people on the property, and unless that is satisfactorily addressed, it wouldn't surprise me if this TA is voted down as well.

Personally, I e-mailed Allen once, about CASS, and received a quick response. Also, BS is on my speed dial and has always gotten back to me, same goes for MG.