new to flying

[surefly]

Hey everybody. I'm 25, based around KVNY/KLAX, and ready to turn my desk into a cockpit within the next year. I've been a passive viewer for the last week and I've read a lot of stories on here from people that have said the first few years of persuing an ATP career are the most difficult/financial burdening of them all, yet the most rewarding because you get to do what you love (not to mention seeing the world from a new perspective/beauty). I've heard it's never to late to learn how to fly and persue a career in it, whether it's regional or with a major commercial airliner.

I just picked up the Jeppesen Private Pilot Manual - so I'm tearing through that - then to the Gliem Private Pilot Written Test Book. I don't think I'll be financially ready to start training until January '06 at this point. But I think that should give me enough time to learn as much as I can on my own.

There's a couple FBO's in the area worth checking out, and I've heard to go with the school that has the best/good quality flight instructors and the most well-maintained planes.

Anyways, that's my brief story for now. I look forward to sharing my adventures in flight training with all of you.

 

[Flying Illini]

Welcome! You won't regret learning to fly. It may be financially burdoning, but it's worth every penny.

 

[mar]

Good luck and welcome

I learned to fly at Fullerton, CA. Soloed at Compton. First job at Van Nuys Flite Center.

Have fun. Good luck. And for God's sake, if you're in the practice area west of VNY please watch out for the jet traffic going into Burbank!

 

[surefly]

I learned to fly at Fullerton, CA. Soloed at Compton. First job at Van Nuys Flite Center.

Have fun. Good luck. And for God's sake, if you're in the practice area west of VNY please watch out for the jet traffic going into Burbank!

lol i'll keep that in mind Mar.
do you still work at VNY? VNFC is one of the schools i think i'll be favoring based on what i've been hearing/reading about the CFI's and the aircraft - even if the PPL training is slightly more $$ than other schools.

 

[schoolio]

Good luck!

 

[Almerick07]

First thing is first, go get yourself a 1st class medical/student pilot certificate...just to be on the safe side before you spend thousands upon thousands of dollars. Second off, go find a local FBO that offers a PPL-CFI course...package deals like that usually save you a thousand or two. I'm not sure of your situation in specific but if you can devote the time to be a full time student do it, if you fly 1-2 times a day you should be able to get your CFI within a year easily. Flight instruct for a year or two, but be prepared to earn $6-7k a year. I would flight instruct until you have atleast 1000 hours before you go job hunting especially if this happens by year 2 of your aviation career. Just make sure you can financially support yourself on $6-7k for a year or two and $20k a year once you have your first "real" flying job. Goodluck and keep us posted, flying is a truely unique and rewarding lifestyle.

 

[surefly]

First thing is first, go get yourself a 1st class medical/student pilot certificate...just to be on the safe side before you spend thousands upon thousands of dollars. Second off, go find a local FBO that offers a PPL-CFI course...package deals like that usually save you a thousand or two. I'm not sure of your situation in specific but if you can devote the time to be a full time student do it, if you fly 1-2 times a day you should be able to get your CFI within a year easily. Flight instruct for a year or two, but be prepared to earn $6-7k a year. I would flight instruct until you have atleast 1000 hours before you go job hunting especially if this happens by year 2 of your aviation career. Just make sure you can financially support yourself on $6-7k for a year or two and $20k a year once you have your first "real" flying job. Goodluck and keep us posted, flying is a truely unique and rewarding lifestyle.

thanks for the insight! yah, I heard it can be quite rough during the first couple of years - most people seem to pull out of it and get by it seems, which is somewhat hopeful lol.

I'm planning on getting a reference to a AME at the FBO which seems to be the most reputable, even before I take a discovery flight. I guess the main thing for me is getting up on the basic knowledge and 'shopping' around for a decent school.

 

[NoPax]

If you work at a good FBO as an instructor, if that's what you want to do, you'll make more than 6-7k. In fact you should make more instructing full-time than your first 'proper' job.
Don't instruct if your heart's not in it. The last thing aviation needs are more SJS inflicted instructors, doing a half-a$$ed job.
There are plenty of other opportunities - Traffic Watch (out of Whitman and Fullerton) and sight seeing, tuna spotting, and banner towing
If you need any info on flight schools in the area let me know, I once worked in the area too

 

[mar]

I'm no longer in the Basin

VNFC is one of the schools i think i'll be favoring based on what i've been hearing/reading about the CFI's and the aircraft - even if the PPL training is slightly more $$ than other schools.

The VNFC was more spendy than the rest but the owner had a reason for it.

Flash back to the recession of the early '90s. Nobody was learning to fly because it had finally become too expensive. But this place was doing ok because it really catered to the higher end of the market.

We had the occasional "professional student" in there but mostly it was a bunch of doctors and lawyers with loads to blow on nice airplanes. They didn't want to rent some beat up Cessna. They had the money to rent turbocharged Saratogas, Trinidads and Senecas.

The check outs were very thorough. The CFIs wore a uniform shirt and slacks. And the saleman would try to pitch a shiney new Trinidad to these guys.

Anyway, things change, and I don't know what it's like now but there could be better options for you out there.

At the top of my list I would put Sunrise Aviation in Orange County (John Wayne).

Reasonable prices, a very strict and dedicated owner who is fixated (?) on quality control and a nice diverse fleet.

I realize that's a bit of a drive for you from west LA.

Santa Monica and Long Beach also have some good schools. If you have some friends that are learning to fly you should get some recommendations from them. In lieu of that, you may need to shop around a little and go through a few instructors until you really find one that you enjoy working with.

I might recommend just going for a few "introductory flights" to see who you like rather than walking in a putting down a huge deposit somewhere.

Good luck, if you can filter out the bickering this website is a good resource.

 

[Kream926]

holy crap you have a blog

 

[surefly]

holy crap you have a blog

I DO!?!?! oh, i mean, I do.

 

[surefly]

The VNFC was more spendy than the rest but the owner had a reason for it.

Flash back to the recession of the early '90s. Nobody was learning to fly because it had finally become too expensive. But this place was doing ok because it really catered to the higher end of the market.

We had the occasional "professional student" in there but mostly it was a bunch of doctors and lawyers with loads to blow on nice airplanes. They didn't want to rent some beat up Cessna. They had the money to rent turbocharged Saratogas, Trinidads and Senecas.

The check outs were very thorough. The CFIs wore a uniform shirt and slacks. And the saleman would try to pitch a shiney new Trinidad to these guys.

Anyway, things change, and I don't know what it's like now but there could be better options for you out there.

At the top of my list I would put Sunrise Aviation in Orange County (John Wayne).

Reasonable prices, a very strict and dedicated owner who is fixated (?) on quality control and a nice diverse fleet.

I realize that's a bit of a drive for you from west LA.

Santa Monica and Long Beach also have some good schools. If you have some friends that are learning to fly you should get some recommendations from them. In lieu of that, you may need to shop around a little and go through a few instructors until you really find one that you enjoy working with.

I might recommend just going for a few "introductory flights" to see who you like rather than walking in a putting down a huge deposit somewhere.

Good luck, if you can filter out the bickering this website is a good resource.

Awesome, thank you very much for the insight! I'll let you know what vibe I get from these places

 

[buttercup]

I learned to fly at Fullerton, CA. Soloed at Compton. First job at Van Nuys Flite Center.

Have fun. Good luck. And for God's sake, if you're in the practice area west of VNY please watch out for the jet traffic going into Burbank!

Did you have a bullet-proof vest on when you soloed at Compton????

 

[mar]

Walk on by

Did you have a bullet-proof vest on when you soloed at Compton????

No sir. I just practiced my Vx climbs!

 

[Goose Egg]

Don't instruct if your heart's not in it. The last thing aviation needs are more SJS inflicted instructors, doing a half-a$$ed job.

That's the truth!

-Goose

 

[FN FAL]

Whatever you do, don't quit your day job untill the economy is better...

 

[TransMach]

Absolutely the most important factor in learning to fly is picking the right instructor!

The right instructor is a guy or gal who is dedicated to completing the instructional task in a quality, real life manner. While nearly all CFIs are teaching in order to build time to move on to another flying job, your job is to find one who is gonna be a CFI long enough to get you through your rating/program.
If I were you (knowing what I do know) I would take a "few" introductory flight lessons at a couple of different schools and get to know a few of the available instructors. From there, I'd select my CFI/school.

TransMach

P.S. I'll be going over to my instructor's house on Saturday for a cold brew, and he, his older son, me, my older son are going fishing 16, 17 and 18 Sept. We've known each other for more than 30 years now. I picked the right guy.

 

[pilotyip]

Remember, no matter what anyone tells you you do not need a college degree to have a successful career as a professional pilot. You need flight time.

 

[surefly]

Whatever you do, don't quit your day job untill the economy is better...

i lend my heart out to the people effected by Katrina and other circumstances out of their control, but i gotta tell you living in L.A. has the biggest dissadvantage for cheap cost of living (factor in how you can't get around without a car, gas prices, and the mass transit system here). i'm 25 and still living at home while i make 35-40k a year and it's still rough if you want to move out on your own. i commend people that have the financial ability to do that. so by all means, getting my PPL with a part 61 is my goal while i hold down my current job in the publication industry.

 

[surefly]

Remember, no matter what anyone tells you you do not need a college degree to have a successful career as a professional pilot. You need flight time.

really? i've read that a degree (in aviation, not nessecarily in some cases) is reccommended for the majors after about 1500hrs. my plan after a PPL and CFI certificate is to attend ATP in LGB and transfer credits to UVSC to take courses online and get an associates in aviation. i suppose it will have to depend on my financial situation at that time though.

do you think that's a reasonable plan? or is it more of a "who you know" type thing?

 

[mar]

Uh oh. Here we go.

Surefly, since you're new here you're not exactly privvy to the running joke with PilotYip and the degree requirements for professional pilots.

He's right. You don't need a degree to have a satisfying career. That comes from your attitude.

But a lot of airlines do require the degree.

My advice, get the degree to get an education. Don't get the degree to get a job.

Good luck.

 

[surefly]

Surefly, since you're new here you're not exactly privvy to the running joke with PilotYip and the degree requirements for professional pilots.

He's right. You don't need a degree to have a satisfying career. That comes from your attitude.

But a lot of airlines do require the degree.

My advice, get the degree to get an education. Don't get the degree to get a job.

Good luck.

word up! and yes, quite green here sir.

 

[NYCPilot]

Hey surefly,

Welcome to aviation. Don't take this personal or as me being judgmental. I quickly checked out your blog and noticed your photo. You've got a bit of a punk rocker look to you, with the large hoop earrings and tatoos going down your arm. I just want to point something out though, in terms of making it to the airlines, etc. you may have to groom yourself towards a more conservative look. Arm length tatoos and hoops earrings are kind of frowned upon. Airlines tend to be conservative and worry what passengers might think if they see a guy who looks too radical. Maybe some of you can chime in on tatoos and employment prospects.

Aside from that, have you taken any lessons or an intro yet. Before you invest in a school thats going to take you from private to ATP, you should make sure this is something you're going to enjoy doing for a living. The pay will be pretty awful for years to come and some people find that after a while, flying isnt something they really enjoy. Also, get that 1st class medical upfront to make sure you have no disqualifiying conditions.

By all means go out there and try it. Studying the material will definitely give you an advantage before you start your training. And any questions you might have can be answered (or debated as is many times the case) right here at flightinfo. Make sure you have a game plan to complete all of your ratings one at a time. Don't run out of money and get stuck in the middle. This will end up costing you more in the long run.

There are basically two ways to get through training. Part 61 and 141. 141 is more structured and can get you finished much quicker. But 61 can be more of a learning experience and maybe more expensive. I did mine 61 nad found that I gained a more varied experiences.

Good luck and keep posting.

 

[surefly]

Hey surefly,

Welcome to aviation. Don't take this personal or as me being judgmental. I quickly checked out your blog and noticed your photo. You've got a bit of a punk rocker look to you, with the large hoop earrings and tatoos going down your arm. I just want to point something out though, in terms of making it to the airlines, etc. you may have to groom yourself towards a more conservative look. Arm length tatoos and hoops earrings are kind of frowned upon. Airlines tend to be conservative and worry what passengers might think if they see a guy who looks too radical. Maybe some of you can chime in on tatoos and employment prospects.

Aside from that, have you taken any lessons or an intro yet. Before you invest in a school thats going to take you from private to ATP, you should make sure this is something you're going to enjoy doing for a living. The pay will be pretty awful for years to come and some people find that after a while, flying isnt something they really enjoy. Also, get that 1st class medical upfront to make sure you have no disqualifiying conditions.

By all means go out there and try it. Studying the material will definitely give you an advantage before you start your training. And any questions you might have can be answered (or debated as is many times the case) right here at flightinfo. Make sure you have a game plan to complete all of your ratings one at a time. Don't run out of money and get stuck in the middle. This will end up costing you more in the long run.

There are basically two ways to get through training. Part 61 and 141. 141 is more structured and can get you finished much quicker. But 61 can be more of a learning experience and maybe more expensive. I did mine 61 nad found that I gained a more varied experiences.

Good luck and keep posting.

thanks for the welcome and the info NYC! i've been asking a lot of questions and doing my research in addition to studying. in fact, i've done my research in the tattoo areas in another online forum i'm apart of ( here's the thread: http://jetcareers.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=323057&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 ). i've made sure not to do anything "too permanent" when it comes to the 'tattoo lifestyle' for this very reason like stretching my ears to a double 0 or get neck and hand tattoos. i realize i'll have to wear long sleeves at any job i go to, and there's nothing i can't cover up (i'm planning on wearing long sleeves during my training, because I want to be taken seriously by the school i choose and CFIs - not like some rock star who wants to fly planes). i consider myself a intelligent, dedicated, fast learner who wishes to become a competent and safe pilot - and i'm going to do what i have to so my reputation can stay that way and not be judged by the 'color of my skin'

 

[NYCPilot]

thanks for the welcome and the info NYC! i've been asking a lot of questions and doing my research in addition to studying. in fact, i've done my research in the tattoo areas in another online forum i'm apart of ( here's the thread: http://jetcareers.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=323057&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 ). i've made sure not to do anything "too permanent" when it comes to the 'tattoo lifestyle' for this very reason like stretching my ears to a double 0 or get neck and hand tattoos. i realize i'll have to wear long sleeves at any job i go to, and there's nothing i can't cover up (i'm planning on wearing long sleeves during my training, because I want to be taken seriously by the school i choose and CFIs - not like some rock star who wants to fly planes). i consider myself a intelligent, dedicated, fast learner who wishes to become a competent and safe pilot - and i'm going to do what i have to so my reputation can stay that way and not be judged by the 'color of my skin'

Judging from your posts and blog, you do seem intelligent, articulate and well adjusted. Keep doing your research - knowledge is power.

By the way, a lot of us have "tatoos" or other interal scars that we carry with us in our life. This can be anything from DUI's, bankruptcies, failed checkrides, criminal records, poor attitudes, bad grades, training washouts, etc. All of which can be overcome.

 

[Goose Egg]

This can be anything from DUI's, bankruptcies, failed checkrides, criminal records, poor attitudes, bad grades, training washouts, etc. All of which can be overcome.

A failed checkride is so minor that it isn't even comparable to a DUI or a criminal record. But NYC is right, it all can be overcome.

-Goose

 

[RichardRambone]

Ive flunked two rides. Does that really matter to employers? I had reasonable excuses for the failures and learned from them so I wouldn't think anyone would take it too badly.

 

[NYCPilot]

I agree that having a failed checkride or two, isn't the end of the world. You may be asked whether you failed one during an interview but if you can be honest about it and explain how you learned from it, and moved on it will be a positive thing.

You learn best from mistakes.

 

[Almerick07]

I would start earning a 2 year degree asap. A 2 year degree is for the most part required for regionals and a lot of 135 operations. Once you are at that point in your life start working towards a 4 year degree because that is a requirement for the majors. I would get it as cheap as possible and in anything you want, it is just a box you check on an application. $50,000 is a good amount of money to get everything done, if done part 141 and fulltime I could see you spending no more than $35,000 on PPL-CFII/MEI. That may give you some money to live on for a while when your income wont cut it. As far as the tatts and piercings go, dont sweat it. I guaged my ears up to a 1/4" back in my band days and somehow convinced the military to take me as a pilot....Just bust a$$ and make interviewers look past the fact youre not just your basic tattooed schmuck. It is almost the same mentality as breaking out in music, get so good at what you do people have to pay attention to you. If you want it dont give up until youve got it. A plumber once told me anything the mind can conceive the body can achieve, that plumber drove a Viper and lived in a million dollar house with only a high school GED. Keep us updated....

 

[surefly]

I would start earning a 2 year degree asap. A 2 year degree is for the most part required for regionals and a lot of 135 operations. Once you are at that point in your life start working towards a 4 year degree because that is a requirement for the majors. I would get it as cheap as possible and in anything you want, it is just a box you check on an application. $50,000 is a good amount of money to get everything done, if done part 141 and fulltime I could see you spending no more than $35,000 on PPL-CFII/MEI. That may give you some money to live on for a while when your income wont cut it. As far as the tatts and piercings go, dont sweat it. I guaged my ears up to a 1/4" back in my band days and somehow convinced the military to take me as a pilot....Just bust a$$ and make interviewers look past the fact youre not just your basic tattooed schmuck. It is almost the same mentality as breaking out in music, get so good at what you do people have to pay attention to you. If you want it dont give up until youve got it. A plumber once told me anything the mind can conceive the body can achieve, that plumber drove a Viper and lived in a million dollar house with only a high school GED. Keep us updated....

awesome! thank you for that post, Almerick
yah, when i want something bad enough that ignites my passion for life, I bust ass to get it - flying is definetly one of them. i will definetly keep you guys updated