New Southwest Domicile - ATL

[HA25]

Ever heard of Song, United Shuttle, TED, MetroJet, Continental Lite. If your product is one that is worthy of customers, then why create a LCC within your airline when people could just fly the real thing on Southwest. It was those airlines who were hellbent on sticking it to Southwest, that created the mess they are in now. Do you think 20 years ago people flying on a Legacy would think that in the future they would have no meal service and have to pay for a checked bag. As far as changes to the industry, the bankruptcies and concessionary contracts have done more harm to pilot wages than Southwest ever could.

agree and I don't blame the market followers, but the market makers.. Who makes the market? I'm not sure, the consumer I'd have to guess.

I remember the HELL people put Skybus thru on here with their model... a model that mind you they copied from Ryan and which today is the basis for Spirit, Allegiant and to some extent the rest of the industry's revenue's.. "Checked bags" being the prime example.

Honestly, if we want to lay blame to the downward spiral this career has taken in the last 30 years, it clearly lies on the backs of the consumer, deregulation and BOTH political parties.. The D's because they placed consumer needs above labor... and the R's because of their obsessive demand for a free market (read might makes right) in every case!

I mean, the ONLY segment of the transportation sector that competes in the pure free market is the most capital intensive one, the airlines! You can't even take a cab with the price being regulated, much less a train or bus (here or in the EU). The business model is broken.

 

[HA25]

Sounds like a bad date.

BANG! nice one... I fell right into it.

 

[fam62c]

not trying to be a smartass.. it's just some of this bickering is lame. Sort of pointless and contributes little except ill will, even if it can be entertaining at times...

True, if you like your job and are happy why would it be necessary to try to convince others that your job is better than theirs? Shouldn't being happy with what you have be good enough? If you like your job at DAL or SW or wherever fantastic, it's great to have a job that you like.

I wonder of engineers, accountants, doctors, lawyers, cops, firefighters, garbage collectors or whatever spend their time on computer message boards bragging that their employer is better than the other guy's? Would you have a conversation like this in person with another professional pilot? Hey Joe, my job at ABC is way better than what your job at XYZ. I fly this kind of airplane to here and there and you fly that kind of airplane from there to here. My job is the best, I'm glad I don't do what you do, why would anyone want to do that when you can do what I do? My company is the best and my job is the best! Seriously, have you ever heard a conversation like that face to face?

 

[Tripower455]

True, if you like your job and are happy why would it be necessary to try to convince others that your job is better than theirs? Shouldn't being happy with what you have be good enough? If you like your job at DAL or SW or wherever fantastic, it's great to have a job that you like.

I wonder of engineers, accountants, doctors, lawyers, cops, firefighters, garbage collectors or whatever spend their time on computer message boards bragging that their employer is better than the other guy's? Would you have a conversation like this in person with another professional pilot? Hey Joe, my job at ABC is way better than what your job at XYZ. I fly this kind of airplane to here and there and you fly that kind of airplane from there to here. My job is the best, I'm glad I don't do what you do, why would anyone want to do that when you can do what I do? My company is the best and my job is the best! Seriously, have you ever heard a conversation like that face to face?

Damn, you nailed the troll to a T......

 

[fam62c]

No, it's pure jealousy.

A random comment here or there would be a normal reaction to an annoyance. Her complete obsession with SW borders on a sickness that hopefully is just jealousy.

I don't know what it is but I have to think that something happened in the past between GL and SW that we will never know about. It's unusual for anybody to harbor that much resentment about anything for that long without some cause; it's a strange crusade indeed.

 

[fam62c]

Damn, you nailed the troll to a T......

He's not the only one, some SW pilots have gone overboard bragging about SW, especially when the rest of the industry was in the dumpster and SW was flying high. For awhile there it was getting pretty old hearing about how much money SW pilots got paid compared to everybody else.

In this industry whoever is on top tends to brag about it. We should all remember that nobody stays on top forever and reversal of fortune is common in the airline world. A little humility never hurt anyone, this career can be a heart-breaker and and it can turn against any of us at any time.

 

[Tripower455]

He's not the only one, some SW pilots have gone overboard bragging about SW, especially when the rest of the industry was in the dumpster and SW was flying high. For awhile there it was getting pretty old hearing about how much money SW pilots got paid compared to everybody else.

In this industry whoever is on top tends to brag about it. We should all remember that nobody stays on top forever and reversal of fortune is common in the airline world. A little humility never hurt anyone, this career can be a heart-breaker and and it can turn against any of us at any time.

AMEN.....

Great post....

I agree, some of our guys were definitely out of line, forgetting (if they ever knew) that this is a very unstable industry.

Just because you're on top now, doesn't mean it'll stay that way.

A perfect example is my old man. If you told him in 1960 (when he got hired at Pan Am), that he would retire from Delta, he would have laughed at such an absurd statement, as Delta was more or less a regional airline then. Yet, that's exactly what happened.

You never know......

 

[General Lee]

AMEN.....

Great post....

I agree, some of our guys were definitely out of line, forgetting (if they ever knew) that this is a very unstable industry.

Just because you're on top now, doesn't mean it'll stay that way.

A perfect example is my old man. If you told him in 1960 (when he got hired at Pan Am), that he would retire from Delta, he would have laughed at such an absurd statement, as Delta was more or less a regional airline then. Yet, that's exactly what happened.

You never know......

Ah ha. So, you do know about the PAN AM/DL stuff. Was he a part of the group called the "dirty 30?" As you know, a partial asset sale doesn't always bring employees along. What did he end up flying after he came over, which seat? Is this why you don't like INTL flying? Do you think any of that has changed since he left? Hotels being better? Maybe trips better? Maybe? You need to explain your stance, and not base it solely off of past practices....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

Ah ha. So, you do know about the PAN AM/DL stuff. Was he a part of the group called the "dirty 30?" As you know, a partial asset sale doesn't always bring employees along. What did he end up flying after he came over, which seat? Is this why you don't like INTL flying? Do you think any of that has changed since he left? Hotels being better? Maybe trips better? Maybe? You need to explain your stance, and not base it solely off of past practices....


Bye Bye---General Lee

Did someone leave a window open?

 

[HA25]

He's not the only one, some SW pilots have gone overboard bragging about SW, especially when the rest of the industry was in the dumpster and SW was flying high. For awhile there it was getting pretty old hearing about how much money SW pilots got paid compared to everybody else. .

[RANT]
This is also true... I remember those days very well, when I was fresh on the street after American cancelled all classes and began to lay off 2500+.. I was wondering the airline wilderness for over a decade before I got something good again, all the while I hear about how I don't deserve to work at Southwest because I never bothered to apply in 2000... Well, it's a little bit like a good friend of mine, who btw is a happy Southwest pilot once said.. "Southwest is like the ugly girl, at the end of the bar after a long night of drinking and getting turned down.. starts to look better and better as the rest of them drop out"

Well, when Delta had contract 2000, and UAL was right on their tail, all the while Southwest paid 1/2 as much and worked twice as hard.. OF COURSE I wasn't about to apply for that job!

What about those droves that left Fedex back in the era before 2001 for careers everywhere? Are they all idiots or just unlucky?

Instead of all this bickering, we should ALL try to raise the bar for OUR profession... don't kid yourself, the $300K/yr Fedex MD11 captain does the same job as the $90K/yr bottom feeder Miami 36th street MD11 captain... usually the difference is timing, luck and a bit of networking... Do you think this would fly in any other profession? You're paid by what you bring to the table, not by whom you work for and how good your MEC is.. [/RANT]