New SONG expansion

[General Lee]

Yes, the 3 NYC airport ad slogan will be gone. EWR competition and congestion just got to us. So, we are using some of those planes for new service from BOS to LAX (2 daily), BOS to SFO (2 daily), and a new nonstop from BDL to LAX. (allnight return) We also just started Song service from JFK to SEA, SFO, LAX, SJU, and AUA.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Skygod]

What? Shocking!

Could it be that Song was losing money on those routes? Could it be? Wonder what routes you are really making any money on?

And General, are you going to go back and edit all your posts that went on and on about serving all three NY airports? Have you heard a rumor 'bout the next JetBlue city? Competition and congestion notwithstanding . . .

 

[Juvat]

News Flash

Song and Ted are getting ready to merge. The new airline will be named "Ted's Schlong".

 

[bestpilot]

The Song website says EWR service is ending September 6th.

Could that be right? Will Song be leaving Newark?

Blue Homer Simpson...Duuude, that's like just

 

[General Lee]

What? Shocking!

Could it be that Song was losing money on those routes? Could it be? Wonder what routes you are really making any money on?

And General, are you going to go back and edit all your posts that went on and on about serving all three NY airports? Have you heard a rumor 'bout the next JetBlue city? Competition and congestion notwithstanding . . .

Hey, we gave it a shot. EWR is called the "Sewark" for a reason. The congestion there is too much. And, why do I have to edit my old posts? We did serve, and continue to until Sept. 6th, all three NYC airports. Do you? I was told by one of your guys via a PM that you would also start EWR, but that never materialized either.

Is Song profitable? Well, we don't really know as pee-ons (pilots), but we seem to be adding many flights, and the flights are full (I know, that might not mean anything if we aren't making money....)---so I think it is doing well. I think the Song brand is catching on and becoming better known. We keep your airline in check, that is for sure. Grinstein likes Song, and says it is a great tool against YOU GUYS. I believe it. I don't think that operation is losing that much money at all, in fact, it probably is profitable.

So, where oh where would you be starting new service? Probably not ATL anytime soon, until maybe you get some E190s. I saw you started new Ponce flights, even though the times are gawd awful. Any idea of another "focus city?" It will be interesting to see where your E190s and buses go after the introduction of the E190 fleet. Let's just hope you guys have the ballz someday to get your E190 pay increased. $89 an hour for 12 year Captain pay really isn't that good for a 100 seat aircraft.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Blue Homer Simpson...Duuude, that's like just

Are you on dope? Do you look like Sean Penn on Fast Times at Ridgmont High?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MedFlyer]

Hey, we gave it a shot. EWR is called the "Sewark" for a reason. The congestion there is too much.

You're blaming congestion for Song's failure at EWR? That's hilarious. Why isn't Song abandoning LGA...it's just as bad as EWR? Song is leaving EWR because CO kicked Song's butt.

We keep your airline in check, that is for sure. Grinstein likes Song, and says it is a great tool against YOU GUYS.

How exactly is Song keeping JetBlue in check? JetBlue is growing like crazy in Song markets. JetBlue is also making money and has near record LF's, so I don't think Song is stealing a lot of customers away.

 

[General Lee]

You're blaming congestion for Song's failure at EWR? That's hilarious. Why isn't Song abandoning LGA...it's just as bad as EWR? Song is leaving EWR because CO kicked Song's butt.



How exactly is Song keeping JetBlue in check? JetBlue is growing like crazy in Song markets. JetBlue is also making money and has near record LF's, so I don't think Song is stealing a lot of customers away.

Here we go again, the expert RJ pilot who knows everything about Song. We don't have the room(gates) at EWR, we can't expand there. We were never big there, and the Song expansion at LGA really took over our mainline service to FLA. I am sure our Song 757s are preferred over CAL 757s to FLA--we have better IFE and probably better fares. I am sure CAL did beat us because we couldn't offer enough service to compete. CAL doesn't compete with us out of LGA for the same reason. At least we tried to offer service to FLA from EWR. But, you know otherwise.

Jetblue is expanding on the same routes as Song? Jetblue did take our old terminal at BOS, and they started some flights. Great. They got some slots at LGA, and started flights to FLL. Great. Our flights from the same cities are full too. Can you really say Jetblue is profitable? How about they don't lose as much as the others, including us? That's better.

And, how do you know if Song is stealing passengers or is not? I hear it all the time when I fly those flights. Is Jetblue stealing some of Comair's passengers to MLB or PNS from JFK? Oh wait, you seem to sit in front of both Jetblue and Song gates in JFK and take polls..... I said in my last post that I THINK Song is doing well by my own accounts, and that Grinstein said he uses Song as a tool against Jetblue. He said that, and he knows a lot more than you or I about what is going on. If it weren't for high fuel prices, both DL and JB would be doing better. When will Comair be IPO'd? Soon hopefully.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Flying Freddie]

Can you really say Jetblue is profitable? How about they don't lose as much as the others, including us? That's better.

Hey General,

Say what? Usually you make sense. Even though your bias is towards DAL/Song as mine is for JetBlue I say again: WTF, over.

 

[rumrnr78]

I hope Delta turns the financial corner to prosperity! But I swear every "positive" post about Delta has me replaying the Animal House scene where Dean Wormer comes in to house to confront them on their grades. Hoover, "I know are grades are a little below par, but we are hoping our mid-terms grades will really help us out"

Otter to Greinstein, "you know what we have to do...roadtrip! "

 

[MedFlyer]

Here we go again, the expert RJ pilot who knows everything about Song. We don't have the room(gates) at EWR, we can't expand there.

Delta Express had 15 daily flights from EWR at its peak, but somehow Song couldn't expand when it was only operating 2 flights to MCO. If DL management wanted to expand Song service at EWR, the gate space is there. They chose not to because Song couldn't compete at EWR.

Can you really say Jetblue is profitable? How about they don't lose as much as the others, including us? That's better.

The last press release I read said JetBlue had 17 consecutive quarters of profitability including the 1st quarter of 2005. So yes, I can really say that JetBlue is profitable. I can't say the same about Song, because DL management won't publish any Song numbers. What are they hiding?

I said in my last post that I THINK Song is doing well by my own accounts, and that Grinstein said he uses Song as a tool against Jetblue. He said that, and he knows a lot more than you or I about what is going on.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Grinstein says a lot of stuff. He also told you that he doesn't like RJ's on long flights (remember that?), but guess what? DL keeps putting RJ's on long flights. Earlier this month, Comair started flying SAT-MCO...1,036 miles.

Since you are so fond of Grinstein quotes, here's another one for you:

"However, as (Delta chief executive officer Gerald) Grinstein paraphrased Vince Lombardi in a recent interview - 'sometimes the clock just runs out.'"

 

[General Lee]

He also said we could sell DCI and still get good use out of it. We don't have to own it I remember him saying.

How many flights did Delta Express have again out of EWR at it's peak? Are you sure about 15 a day? I flew there for a year and don't remember that many. Maybe you were there, counting them from the observatory deck. We also dropped IAD, but nobody was really fighting us there at that point. We obviously dropped EWR because we couldn't do much there to expand it anymore. We were stuck with a certain number of possible departures. Besides, we have a CRJ or CR7 blocking the gate most of the time, taking disgruntled businessmen to CVG. You should know that.

Grinstein said Song was profitable in the press, so I would have to believe that there is some truth there. Also, he is expanding it, rather than shutting it down I believe, and that would INDICATE that Song is on the right path. As far as our profitability, we have already cut $3.5 billion a year from the budget, and we are going for $5 billion a year. With your pay freeze, we might save $5.1 billion. Both of our main creditors--AMEX and GE, are "impressed" and have relaxed our terms, partially to help for higher gas bills. At the same time, we have increased fares somewhat to cover most of the higher fuel costs, but $60 a barrel isn't good for anyone.

Got any quotes from Fred Butrell? Where are those Comair E170s?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Smoking Man]

So, where oh where would you be starting new service? Probably not ATL anytime soon, until maybe you get some E190s. I saw you started new Ponce flights, even though the times are gawd awful. Any idea of another "focus city?" It will be interesting to see where your E190s and buses go after the introduction of the E190 fleet. Let's just hope you guys have the ballz someday to get your E190 pay increased. $89 an hour for 12 year Captain pay really isn't that good for a 100 seat aircraft.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Note: The $89 an hour is only for the first 70 hours, anything above is paid at 150%.


If I had to guess about where the 190 is going I would place $$, on cities like RIC, CHS, etc, you know cities where a large portion of the flying is on crj/emb-145 aircraft and the airport is largely served by delta/u.s. airways. I wonder if the customers will notice the larger airplane (compared to crj service) that you can stand up in, and you don't have to walk out on the ramp in the WX to get in. Not to mention the extras, TV/ XM soon etc etc. I am suspect that the pay will change after the aircraft gets some time on the property.

 

[General Lee]

Note: The $89 an hour is only for the first 70 hours, anything above is paid at 150%. If I had to guess about where the 190 is going I would place $$, on cities like RIC, CHS, etc, you know cities where a large portion of the flying is on crj/emb-145 aircraft and the airport is largely served by delta/u.s. airways. I wonder if the customers will notice the larger airplane (compared to crj service) that you can stand up in, and you don't have to walk out on the ramp in the WX to get in. Not to mention the extras, TV/ XM soon etc etc. I am suspect that the pay will change after the aircraft gets some time on the property.

Everyone hopes so. Remember also that even the extra pay after 70 hours doesn't help much when you live in NYC or the surroundings. Honestly, we hope you guys change your rates eventually.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Smoking Man]

I think that 90% of the pilots at JFK commute.

 

[FNG320]

Grinstein said SONG was profitable in the press, so I would have to believe that there is some truth there. Also, he is expanding it, rather than shutting it down I believe, and that would INDICATE that Song is on the right path.
Bye Bye--General Lee

General,
I have read the same press releases. Problems is, they have always said SONG was profitable. But that is SONG itself, without the overhead that goes with operating an airline. These include the cost of gates, reservations, maintenance, payments on jets, etc. It is just for the cost of pilots, flight attendants, some cusotmer service/gates agents and fuel. Mother Delta is providing a lot to SONG. IF you were to break out SONG's portion of all of the above from Delta's total bill, SONG would be losing money. Maybe not as much as mainline, but still losing money. But by "leaving out some cost" that is how he can say SONG is making money.

Yes, expanding. But Song is feeding mostly of on itself by replacing mainline fights with SONG. The end result is it should be a reduction in losses, but not increased profit.

It is amazing how SONG parallels just about every city pair that JetBlue has. There are few if any where SONG does not parallel JetBlue. Remember the west coast flights still parallel JetBlues (SFO=OAK, LAX=LGB, etc).

I guess you can say Plagiarism is the greatest form of flattery. SONG is just a XEROX copy of JetBlue, but it came from a color copier missing some colors.


Just my opinion.....

FNG

 

[banger]

We just announced a $220 million JFK construction job. Would that indicate that we are just peeing in the wind there?


What I've heard is the port of NYC sued DAL to correct and upgrade the terminal to keep it up to standards they had agreed upon. DAL didn't want to spend the $220 mil but was forced to.

 

[FNG320]

We just announced a $220 million JFK construction job. Would that indicate that we are just peeing in the wind there?


What I've heard is the port of NYC sued DAL to correct and upgrade the terminal to keep it up to standards they had agreed upon. DAL didn't want to spend the $220 mil but was forced to.

Ouch! That'l leave a mark! But if you haven't been in Terminal 2 and 3 lately, they are really run down (old, dirty, torn carpet, missing tiles, cracks in the floors and walls, wall paper falling down, ceiling leaks in heavy rain, etc. They both defintley need some TLC. It does look like they have done nothing to maintian the property in years!


Just my opinion...

FNG

 

[GogglesPisano]

Ouch! That'l leave a mark! But if you haven't been in Terminal 2 and 3 lately, they are really run down (old, dirty, torn carpet, missing tiles, cracks in the floors and walls, wall paper falling down, ceiling leaks in heavy rain, etc. They both defintley need some TLC. It does look like they have done nothing to maintian the property in years!


Just my opinion...

FNG

Terminal 3 will always be the old Pan Am Worldport in my eyes. Ahh, the good old days.

 

[Noserider76]

It is amazing how SONG parallels just about every city pair that JetBlue has. There are few if any where SONG does not parallel JetBlue. Remember the west coast flights still parallel JetBlues (SFO=OAK, LAX=LGB, etc).
FNG

Not this crap again. Jet Blue cherry picked routes Delta has been flying for years. If you are going to attack someones routes with an ultra low-paid work force you sure better expect a competitve response. All the west coast flights were flown by Delta long before Jet Blue was even an idea.