New Rest Rules tomorrow, 12/21/11

[Lear70]

I don't really understand this desire for long layovers. If I want to spend 24 hours in Cancun, I'll take a vacation on my days off and spend the time there with friends or family. When I'm at work, give me a long enough layover for a good night's rest, and then back to flying so I can get home as soon as possible and spend my time the way that I want to instead of spending it where the company sticks me.

That's because you don't have a wife and/or kids to get back to when you're home and have the ability to just jet off for fun and giggles.

With long layovers you can get paid to take a little mini-break, explore a city, see if you'd like to vacation there longer, get ideas of what to do, or just relax and hang out.

Again, with our lines, the only difference is about 5 hours of credit, or around $500 at our longevity, on a line that pays more with none of the long layovers. That's $100 per trip to make it easy, one or two legs out to the West Coast or somewhere international, 24 hours or so to hang and relax, one or two legs back.

I'll take that trade-off all day long and twice on Tuesday.

Then when I get home, I can spend all my off-time with my son and not want to jet back off somewhere to go relax, that's for vacation 2-3 times a year.

Everyone likes different things. Some people are all about money and time off... some people are about enjoying our trips and having a good time while making the money and time off we need.

 

[slaquer5]

I don't really understand this desire for long layovers. If I want to spend 24 hours in Cancun, I'll take a vacation on my days off and spend the time there with friends or family. When I'm at work, give me a long enough layover for a good night's rest, and then back to flying so I can get home as soon as possible and spend my time the way that I want to instead of spending it where the company sticks me.

Lear I hate to say this but PLC is right . You are willing to give up 3000-4000 dollars a month (FO pay), for some longer layovers. No way my brother.

 

[PCL_128]

That's because you don't have a wife and/or kids to get back to when you're home and have the ability to just jet off for fun and giggles.

Still doesn't make any sense. Unless you hate your wife and kids and want to get away from them, then the best way to get the most time with them is to have reasonable layover times and right back to flying so you can get back to your family as soon as possible. Spending time at some outstation with a dude you just met the day before and some 3Gs instead of at home with family and friends? Like I said, I just don't get it.

With long layovers you can get paid to take a little mini-break

You don't get paid on a layover, you get paid for the flying before and after the layover (unless you're there for so long that the trip rig kicks in, and that would just suck). Time on a layover is just unpaid time away from home.

Everyone likes different things. Some people are all about money and time off... some people are about enjoying our trips and having a good time while making the money and time off we need.

Agreed. If it works for you, more power to you. Just don't try to engineer rest rules to force the rest of us into it when we'd rather be more efficient with our time.

 

[Lear70]

The trip rig always kicks in for the 3-days I fly.

And that goes both ways, my friend. Don't re-rig rest rules and hose me out of my long layovers.

p.s. Slaquer, I guess you're looking at the ability to fly another 22-25 TFP a month with the new rules, I was just applying it to what we do here. It'll only add another 5 or so hours of credit a month to my pay with no additional days off, I already average 18 off. Eh, who knows how this will affect us, I just know AirTran and their interest in squeezing every last bit of productivity out of us and increase our reserves from 30%-40% in the process. No, I'm not kidding, I'm pretty sure we're running close to 30% reserves.

 

[PCL_128]

The trip rig always kicks in for the 3-days I fly.

That's because the pairings on the 737 are absolutely horrible. Hopefully SWA will fix them and make them far more efficient.

And that goes both ways, my friend. Don't re-rig rest rules and hose me out of my long layovers.

The new rest/duty rules are based on science, not preferred layover considerations. As it should be.

 

[waveflyer]

Somewhat based on science-
The document continually uses "flight time" synonymously with "work". Flight time doesn't make me tired- duty time and time working does-
From what I've seen- this is much improved over the current scam rest rules.

Anyone applied the 65 in 168 to our schedules to see how it would affect them?

I personally hate 30/7- I'm always illegal by :20 for the trip that would make my life so much better- wonder why cartel's exist?
:-/

 

[Lear70]

That's because the pairings on the 737 are absolutely horrible. Hopefully SWA will fix them and make them far more efficient.

Speak for yourself. I like the MCO 737 pairings. 18 and 19 hour credit 3 days. 4 of those with 75 hrs block / 78 hrs credit and I'm done for the month.

The new rest/duty rules are based on science, not preferred layover considerations. As it should be.

Just saying there's always the law of unintended consequences. You pull from one reg and add to another and who knows what Crew Planning will do with it. Just hoping there will be enough variety for everyone and not create high value uncommutable day trips in a 60-70% commuter environment industry-wide or make high value workaholic trips and little else.

Time will tell. If it happens that way, at least I know the regional guys got thrown a bone...

 

[PCL_128]

wave, the focus of the new rules is the Flight Duty Period (FDP), not flight time. Flight time is taken into account somewhat, because the science indicates that it does matter to some limited degree, but duty time and number of segments (legs) is the focus, because that's what the science indicates is the biggest problem with fatigue.

 

[PCL_128]

Speak for yourself. I like the MCO 737 pairings.

I forgot that you're MCO based now. Yeah, those pairings are much better. The 737 guys in ATL get hosed, though. Horribly unproductive trips.

 

[waveflyer]

Ah Lear- the commuter lobby-

Well Im a local guy, who would like to be home every day possible and do nothing but turns- a dog will do that

It gets me that commuters lobby for 4 day trips-->then a disproportionate amount of 4 day trips end up in open time, which very few are legal for, which leads to more 4 day reserve blocks- then turns are bid for by commuters, just bc they're easier to get rid of and make your schedule more flexible.

I say if you lobby for 4 days- you should be the ********************ers who have to fly them
;-)
(but then again, I feel the same way about 3 days!. )