new pinnaple story

[xjhawk]

i have always heard of those stories of some idiot pinnacle pilot did this or that, i always took those stories with a grain of salt cause i have met my share of pinnacle pilots and most were pretty cool people.......that said, this story is not second hand...i heard it on the radio myself, so if you are one of those cool pinnacle people......take care of your own.....

on wednesday the 17th around 3:45 eastern............

So on the Cetus 2 apporach into DTW we were given a crossing ALT of 12,000 with a speed of 210. no problem.....paid by the hour i can slow down if they tell me

So then we heard a call from approach to a Flagship 5898 or 4700, i cannot remember which that they were overtaking a 757 and if they did not slow, they would be circled and put behind other aircraft. The pinnacle pilot came back to say that if they wanted him slower, he would have to decend another 2000 feet. The radio was quiet after that, like everyone was thinking.....why would he need to be lower to slow down to 210 at 12,000 feet.

Approach came back to say that everyone has made that crossing altitude even other company crj's.

The ever so smart and all knowing Flagship guy came back to say that no one knows the regulations like he does, and he needs to be 2000 feet lower in order to get to 210 kots.

I assume this bright guy with all his experience thinks that you cannot go slower than 250 when above 10,000 feet! I think he has a lot to learn.....before....wait, he already is a airline pilot...and is already most likely the captain.....God help us

so the moral of the story....i have no idea.....but i do know.....well, i do not know much, but i know more than that guy....ha ha

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

on another note..... glad to see the Mesaba Pilots victory on May 18 in court!

Good Job Mesaaaaaaaaaaaaaba!!!

Mesaba Airline pilots are gratified by the bankruptcy court's May 18 decision denying Mesaba management's 1113(c) motion to reject their contract. Pilots say that during the 15 days of lengthy testimony in this case, Mesaba failed to satisfy the legal elements required to obtain relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
"I'm sure that every Mesaba pilot is breathing a sigh of relief over yesterday's announcement," says Capt. Tom Wychor, Mesaba MEC chairman. "All along, ALPA requested information that would allow us to assess management's requests. The court agreed that information wasn't provided. Moreover, ALPA believed, and still believes, that management doesn't need the drastic pay and benefit cuts it requested."
Mesaba pilots say they have been willing to address the airline's crisis since October 2005.
"The bankruptcy judge's decision does not change our willingness to participate in that restructuring in a way that still offers meaningful career opportunities at our airline," Capt. Wychor says.
Perhaps the most important ruling in the 98-page decision was the judge's firm and unequivocal decree prohibiting rejection of the MAIR/ALPA letter. That letter requires Mesaba's holding company, MAIR, to staff its airline subsidiaries with Mesaba pilots under the terms of the Mesaba collective bargaining agreement. The ruling has a small carve-out for Big Sky Airlines, also owned by MAIR, which allows Big Sky to operate aircraft with no more than 19 seats. In light of management's previous threats to transfer all growth to Big Sky, the continuation of the MAIR letter is vital to Mesaba's survival.
The judge ruled that because MAIR was not a party to the bankruptcy, Mesaba management could not reject the Letter. The ruling was made with prejudice, meaning that the management cannot re-file another motion with the court on this issue.
Pilots maintain that the only way that Mesaba Airlines will survive and prosper is through consensual agreements between management and its employees.
"Pilots will not work for the kind of substandard wages that management was trying to impose, and we'll continue to insist on management fulfilling our need for information that will allow us to make reasonable decisions based on the airline's real need," says Capt. Wychor.

Moderator reviewed


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[Flyerjosh]

Dunno how relevant this is to this particular situation, but I do know that at least when I operated the CRJ my company had established minimum speeds for certain altitudes.

Coming in on the Cetus 2, IIRC, the crossing restriction is given as you descend through FL20-something, no? It's possible that the flight was above an altitude that it could slow at the moment ATC asked for slower (IE could make the restriction, but couldn't slow at that given second).

For example, if I'm given the restriction and I start down out of FL270, and ATC asks me to slow down, the slowest I could go was 250. Once I got down to FL250, I could slow to 220. Below 15,000 the min speed was 210, until I got flaps lowered.

Dunno what the case was, but given the increased awareness about airspeed at altitude, it's just possible that the pinnacle guy didn't want to get too slow until lower. (But I didn't hear the conversation, so I have no clue how high they were when ATC asked them to slow).

 

[ReportCanoa]

Whats the min speed at 410?

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Come on guys. That's enough.

 

[punkpilot48]

Whats the min speed at 410?

ouch......

 

["GO AROUND"]

Don't know yet, this dang contol wheel keeps shaking and pushing keeping me from finding out.


And the answer is yes, I am already going to you know where.

 

[AeroDork]

Whats the min speed at 410?

I don't know dude.

 

[I_Love_Lamp]

I don't know dude.

Let's find out, bro.

 

[FCPhotography]

Heard about that in the crewroom.

Maybe he was trying to make a commute and doesn't care anymore.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Whats the min speed at 410?

Oh no you didn't!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Windsor]

Whats the min speed at 410?

thats just wrong. have some respect.

 

[sociald]

Pathetic...

Whats the min speed at 410?

just pathetic...why would you even consider posting that moron

 

[Dumb Pilot]

All fun and games until somebody dies, in this particular case? I don't find it very amusing
A lot more involve in this accident that meets the eye

 

[DoinTime]

I assume this bright guy with all his experience thinks that you cannot go slower than 250 when above 10,000 feet! I think he has a lot to learn.....before....wait, he already is a airline pilot...and is already most likely the captain.....God help us

The problem lies with a poorly worded policy memo put out by our management in regard to minimum speed maintenance. While most of our guys see through and justify their way around this memo others are not willing to get under the microscope of a management team that terminates 100 times the number of pilots per year (yes, these are real numbers) than our mainline counterpart. Keep in mind this is the gross number of terminations. If you were to account for the NW pilot group being over four times the size of PCL's you end up being 400 times more likely to be fired from Pinnacle than at Northwest.

This fact alone makes most pilots sack (and common sense) shrivel up.

 

[xjhawk]

i was hoping it was something like that.... i could almost hear his frustration.......we all need to stand together.....us worthless regional pilots......oh wait, NWA just became a regional too.....

But i will add, i cannot blame them for trying to save themselves.......

 

[FlyBunny]

Fascinating questions...

Whats the min speed at 410?

Min Speed at 410 (of you know what) is still faster than:

Southwest 737 that landed, overshot, and skidded through the end parameter (MDW) and KILLED a person

Faster than FedEx MD11 that CRASHED on landing because the captain didn't follow the correct procedure for a BOTCHED approach

Much faster than the American Airlines MD80 that landed with the thunderstorm on the field and KILLED many including the captain

Start reading the accidents reports and history of mishaps with (we'd stay with the US major airlines as people like YOU still think that they are safest compared to regionals) perhaps that would educate you a bit...but I doubt!

However, I'd be happy to provide details of many 'regional' (other than Pinnacle) accidents caused by pilot mistakes.

Bunny

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Southwest 737 that landed, overshot, and skidded through the end parameter (MDW) and KILLED a person

If I'm not mistaken, I don't believe this was attributed to pilot error. I seem to remember that contributing factors were inaccurate breaking action reports, faulty thrust reverser activation (18-20 lag before reverser actuated), and the data utilized by the pilots depicted that the landing conditions were still usable.

I could be off on this one, but this is what I remember. And the final report still has not been issued...

 

[punkpilot48]

And that car had no bussiness being in the middle of the highway like that....sheesh!

 

[Flyerjosh]

If I'm not mistaken, I don't believe this was attributed to pilot error. I seem to remember that contributing factors were inaccurate breaking action reports, faulty thrust reverser activation (18-20 lag before reverser actuated), and the data utilized by the pilots depicted that the landing conditions were still usable.

I could be off on this one, but this is what I remember. And the final report still has not been issued...

Alright... substitude MDW for SNA and car for gas station... the point is that nobody's perfect (even though I think the PCL accident was one of the dumber that I have observed in the recent years, at least with respect to the number of errors and attitude issues)

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Fair enough... Just with how everyone jumps on someone else's case over details, I felt that FB was comparing apples to oranges. I realize where FB was going with the statement...

 

[Popeye0537]

Alright... substitude MDW for SNA and car for gas station... the point is that nobody's perfect (even though I think the PCL accident was one of the dumber that I have observed in the recent years, at least with respect to the number of errors and attitude issues)

Not SNA, Burbank.....and they were low on fuel so they thought they'd just fill up there

 

[list2002]

I thought you said Pineapple... whew!~

 

[Dizel8]

Not SNA, Burbank.....and they were low on fuel so they thought they'd just fill up there

Heck, with the listed prices, who could blame them!