New Pilot Certification Requirements for Air Carrier Operations

[xanderman]

This is an ANPRM document...

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/recently_published/media/2010-02643_PI.pdf

 

[samballs]

Can u summarize I have a 17 month old telling me I'm a retard for being in this job.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

In summary the FAA is investigating the effect of enacting one or a combination of the following options:

1. Requirement for all pilots employed in part 121 air carrier operations to hold an
Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) certificate with the appropriate aircraft category, class,
and type rating, or meet the aeronautical experience requirements of an ATP
certificate.

2. Academic Training as a Substitute for Flight Hours Experience.

3. Endorsement for Air Carrier Operations

4. New additional authorization on an existing pilot certificate.

 

[IslandDriver]

The issue I have with the part for an endorsement for 121 ops would be that there will be "Pilot Mills" that will charge for such a thing and we will continue the race to the bottom because people will continue to pay for their experience.

Correct me if I am wrong: This is coming out of the CJC 3407 Accident and the captain was a Gulfstream Academy guy and I bet they will get the authorization to give such an endorsement.

The sad thing is I think this is a knee jerk reaction. 3407 was caused by a lack of situational awareness (not knowing that their airspeed was slow..thus not even realizing they were in a stall), a lack of basic flying skills (stall recovery), and a lack of cockpit discipline (chatter and banter for the entire flight by a captain to their FO). Not paying attention to the duty at hand...like flying an approach in "Gentleman's IFR" conditions.

Look in the past...just as short ago as 2002 the competitive mins for a regional was like 2000 hours. Right now when hiring resumes it will be about the same because of the lack of movement right now.

In my past I have trained guys at the regional level at 400 hours...many were good and many were bad....but the sad part is the reason had more to do with very basic flying skills. Some of the best came from local FBO's...people who learned to fly from people that taught for like 20 years...not instuctors at universities that were teaching at 250 hours....you realize that the universities teach new pilots with new pilots. ( I know not everybody at universities are 200 hr CFI's but many are).

Look at the medical industry....Doctors and Nurses that teach new Doctor's and Nurses have a lot more experience than what we allow new pilots to teach new pilots. Perhalps we should make CFI's have 1500 hours before they can teach. Sure then the argument would be what are we going to do to get experience. This can go round and round...like what came first the chicken or the egg.

I hate to see arbitrary rules that look like we fixed the problem where the real problem was simply a lack of flight discipline. I think 1500 hours will be better but there are a lot of guys out there that are better at 400 hours than 1500 hours.....

I think the real fix is discipline, personal responsibility and integrity...all things that we can not write a rule for.

Any hoo....too much beer and pizza.

 

[RoundMotor]

The issue I have with the part for an endorsement for 121 ops would be that there will be "Pilot Mills" that will charge for such a thing and we will continue the race to the bottom because people will continue to pay for their experience.

Correct me if I am wrong: This is coming out of the CJC 3407 Accident and the captain was a Gulfstream Academy guy and I bet they will get the authorization to give such an endorsement.

The sad thing is I think this is a knee jerk reaction. 3407 was caused by a lack of situational awareness (not knowing that their airspeed was slow..thus not even realizing they were in a stall), a lack of basic flying skills (stall recovery), and a lack of cockpit discipline (chatter and banter for the entire flight by a captain to their FO). Not paying attention to the duty at hand...like flying an approach in "Gentleman's IFR" conditions.

Look in the past...just as short ago as 2002 the competitive mins for a regional was like 2000 hours. Right now when hiring resumes it will be about the same because of the lack of movement right now.

In my past I have trained guys at the regional level at 400 hours...many were good and many were bad....but the sad part is the reason had more to do with very basic flying skills. Some of the best came from local FBO's...people who learned to fly from people that taught for like 20 years...not instuctors at universities that were teaching at 250 hours....you realize that the universities teach new pilots with new pilots. ( I know not everybody at universities are 200 hr CFI's but many are).

Look at the medical industry....Doctors and Nurses that teach new Doctor's and Nurses have a lot more experience than what we allow new pilots to teach new pilots. Perhalps we should make CFI's have 1500 hours before they can teach. Sure then the argument would be what are we going to do to get experience. This can go round and round...like what came first the chicken or the egg.

I hate to see arbitrary rules that look like we fixed the problem where the real problem was simply a lack of flight discipline. I think 1500 hours will be better but there are a lot of guys out there that are better at 400 hours than 1500 hours.....

I think the real fix is discipline, personal responsibility and integrity...all things that we can not write a rule for.

Any hoo....too much beer and pizza.
__________________

I think your Statement is perfect.

 

[SIG600]

What academic experience replaces 1500 hours of time??

 

[Metro752]

None. It is only listed because schools like Embry Riddle are lobbying for it.

Actual cockpit experience, or nothing. We need to set a standard.

 

[AA717driver]

We'll end up like Ryannair with 200 hour 737 FO's from "Approved Cadet Programs".

It'll be ok, the ATA said so...

TC

 

[CFI2766]

The immediate way to fix this is to no longer count hours logged as a CFI as PIC.

Those that want to CFI, will. They will be paid more, and will be able to make a living sharing valid knowledge, not simply holding on until they have the mins to get an airline job. Quality of instruction will go up, the quality of the finished product, the students, will go up as well. It's a win/win.

 

[livin'thesim]

CFI time is not that different than pilot monitoring time at a carrier.

If a CFI cannot log the time, then regional FOs should not be able to either.

In fact, a CFII in actual has at least as much going on as a regional FO.