New Piece of Express Jet Puzzle?

[blueridge71]

Midwest Airlines is asking for proposals to fly 50 seat jets under the Midwest Connect name. Skyway is not losing their 328 Jets. This would be additional flying.

ASA or Express Jet would be ideal for such a contract. ASA since our 50 seat costs are so low and Express Jet because they have a lot of airplanes that may soon be idle.

This nugget came from Aviation Daily (6/9/06).

 

[flyupder]

Hopefully AWAC can get ahold of this one. The morale would skyrocket back up after being shoved out east.

 

[arthompson]

I agree and AWAC allready has the infrastructure in place. The primary MX facility is in MKE.

 

[BankAccount=0$]

I'm all for ExpressJet flying for MidWest. The only problem I see aside from that they should just grow their own feeder SkyWay, is that there is no place to mount the cookie oven in the ERJ galley. Then again since I don't drink coffee I guess they could lose the coffee maker and replace it with the cookie warmer. On the plus side I gaurantee that the captains would not have to be asked to turn the shed bus to override by the F/A's since it would delay the cookie baking process.

 

[arthompson]

When Skyway had ERJ's on order they were going to install an oven

 

[DrewBlows]

Midwest Airlines is asking for proposals to fly 50 seat jets under the Midwest Connect name. Skyway is not losing their 328 Jets. This would be additional flying.

They're not losing 328's, they're losing B1900's which equates to a net loss of pilots overall. I don't have my Skyway contract in front of me, but Skyway does have scope. Exactly what that scope includes I have no idea.

On a slightly different note. If Midwest hires out it's flying, they will lose the only advantage they have over any other company; service. I don't care how good you think your companies service is, it doesn't compare to Midwest (or Skyway for that matter). Don't believe me, jumpseat on a B717 or D328.

 

[Superpilot92]

Well since Midwest wants to make sure they keep a High quality of service I could easily see XJET getting this. We will see.

 

[DrewBlows]

Well since Midwest wants to make sure they keep a High quality of service I could easily see XJET getting this. We will see.

I've never been on an xjet flight, so I don't know what the airplanes and service is like. From what I've seen Midwest and Skyway is far ahead of other companies (that I'm familiar with anyway) in cleanliness and service (Horizon is right there too, now that I think of it). Does experess jet vacuum the airplanes when they pass through the hub? Do the flight attendants cross the seat belts after every leg? Can an oven be installed in the ERJ so the flight attendants can serve fresh cookies (the thing I miss most about Skyway)? These are just a few things that they do to make your ride more enjoyable. I don't know if Midwest is looking to continue their tradition of excellent service (which admittidly is not what it used to be), I just hope that little Skyway Airlines isn't put out of business because they aren't cheap enough. Midwest also has a tradition of putting an entire work group out of jobs to save a money (there is no such thing as a Midwest ramp worker anymore), I hope this is not the case here.

 

[Prop Trash]

Does experess jet vacuum the airplanes when they pass through the hub? Do the flight attendants cross the seat belts after every leg? Can an oven be installed in the ERJ so the flight attendants can serve fresh cookies (the thing I miss most about Skyway)?

Yes, yes, and I don't know.

 

[Snakum]

I can vouch for Midwest and Skyway service. I flew on one of their DC9s (MD80s?) and then their D328s a few years ago and the difference between their service and the usual PSA/USAir experience was quite noticeable.

You guys do a great job.

 

[Superpilot92]

I've never been on an xjet flight, so I don't know what the airplanes and service is like. From what I've seen Midwest and Skyway is far ahead of other companies (that I'm familiar with anyway) in cleanliness and service (Horizon is right there too, now that I think of it). Does experess jet vacuum the airplanes when they pass through the hub? Do the flight attendants cross the seat belts after every leg? Can an oven be installed in the ERJ so the flight attendants can serve fresh cookies (the thing I miss most about Skyway)? These are just a few things that they do to make your ride more enjoyable. I don't know if Midwest is looking to continue their tradition of excellent service (which admittidly is not what it used to be), I just hope that little Skyway Airlines isn't put out of business because they aren't cheap enough. Midwest also has a tradition of putting an entire work group out of jobs to save a money (there is no such thing as a Midwest ramp worker anymore), I hope this is not the case here.

Well in the Letter from the CEO it flat out says,

"To: All Midwest and Skyway Airlines Employees
Date: June 6, 2006
From: Tim Hoeksema
Subject: Regional Fleet Analysis

As you may know, Skyway has been actively seeking to purchase additional Fairchild 328 regional jets to move toward a one fleet type and improve operational efficiency. Recently, it has become clear that the cost of 32-seat 328s has been going up. At the same time, it appears that the cost of 50-seat regional jets has been going down.

We believe we may be able to add 50-seat regional jets to our network for close to the cost of additional 328s. These additional seats would growcapacity and improve business results by lowering our cost per available seat mile. In addition, 50-seat aircraft could open the door to new markets for our airline.

While our analysis to this point is incomplete and many details have yet to be explored, we have also decided to evaluate whether further cost savings could be achieved by using a third-party carrier to operate 50-seat regional jets. Plus, it may mean that we could add capacity and explore new markets much faster than by acquiring only additional 328s.

As I mentioned above, many questions remain unanswered. Potential vendors are being invited to submit proposals that will be evaluated to determine if we could obtain substantial savings with no reduction in quality. The evaluation process should be complete by the end of summer. Please be assured that you will be the first to know when we have more information."

So hopefully they will stick to that and not settle for low quality. Fact of the matter is none of us will no till it happens. Carry on

 

[captjim]

I've never been on an xjet flight, so I don't know what the airplanes and service is like. From what I've seen Midwest and Skyway is far ahead of other companies (that I'm familiar with anyway) in cleanliness and service (Horizon is right there too, now that I think of it). Does experess jet vacuum the airplanes when they pass through the hub? Do the flight attendants cross the seat belts after every leg? Can an oven be installed in the ERJ so the flight attendants can serve fresh cookies (the thing I miss most about Skyway)? These are just a few things that they do to make your ride more enjoyable. I don't know if Midwest is looking to continue their tradition of excellent service (which admittidly is not what it used to be), I just hope that little Skyway Airlines isn't put out of business because they aren't cheap enough. Midwest also has a tradition of putting an entire work group out of jobs to save a money (there is no such thing as a Midwest ramp worker anymore), I hope this is not the case here.

Midwest and Skyway arent the only carriers that provide great service, try taking a ride on some other carriers sometime.

 

[BankAccount=0$]

I've never been on an xjet flight, so I don't know what the airplanes and service is like. From what I've seen Midwest and Skyway is far ahead of other companies (that I'm familiar with anyway) in cleanliness and service (Horizon is right there too, now that I think of it). Does experess jet vacuum the airplanes when they pass through the hub? Do the flight attendants cross the seat belts after every leg? Can an oven be installed in the ERJ so the flight attendants can serve fresh cookies (the thing I miss most about Skyway)? These are just a few things that they do to make your ride more enjoyable. I don't know if Midwest is looking to continue their tradition of excellent service (which admittidly is not what it used to be), I just hope that little Skyway Airlines isn't put out of business because they aren't cheap enough. Midwest also has a tradition of putting an entire work group out of jobs to save a money (there is no such thing as a Midwest ramp worker anymore), I hope this is not the case here.

Simply put, ANY airline can provide service to match Midwest/SkyWay's level, the issue is cost, not ability. Of course you didn't specificly mention operational quality, but there are only a handful of airlines in the country who come close to matching the operational numbers that XJT achieves.

Again, I hope the flying is placed at SkyWay where it belongs. If this new flying means that the Beech Guys are let go, I would hope that whoever was awarded the new flying would extend the courtesy to offer them preferential interviews/hiring.

It would be great if we put ovens in our ERJ's though......cookies warming in the air, but burritos cooking on the long MKE sit on the ground.......

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

It would be great if we put ovens in our ERJ's though......cookies warming in the air, but burritos cooking on the long MKE sit on the ground.......

mmmmm....burritos....

 

[DrewBlows]

Of course you didn't specificly mention operational quality

I'm not trying to bash expressjet, by all accounts they do a great job at what they do. My point is that few airlines do what Midwest does. How many times have you held push so you could get a single passenger on? I'm guessing never (I haven't at my current company), because on-time performance is so important. When I was there (Skyway that is) I witnessed this happen all the time. Guess who that passenger is going to fly with next time? We once had a group of nurses on board to MKE who went to Toronto for the day to go shopping. We didn't have cookies on board, and they were mildly disappointed. When we called in range we requested cookies for them and when we got there the operations agent had two or three plates full of cookies for the nurses (and anyone else who happened to be on board). Guess who they will fly with next time? Again, my point is that Midwest does very well at what they do, and they have established themselves a decent little niche market up in MKE. There is no way that they can compete when they become like everyone else (my opinoin). Expressjet may very well be able to provide the sevice that a lot of loyal Milwaukeans have come to expect. Again, I hope this not just about saving money (in which case Expressjet probably would not get the contract), but Midwest has in the past made decisions to save money (again, the rampers).

However it plays out I wish everyone at Skyway the best, and for that matter I wish everyone at Expressjet the best as well. You guys seem to have a good management team that has built your company into what it has become today, and seems poised to carry it into the future.

 

[YMICFI]

There is no doubt that MidEx & Skyway are "the best care in the air."

 

[Superpilot92]

I'm not trying to bash expressjet, by all accounts they do a great job at what they do. My point is that few airlines do what Midwest does. How many times have you held push so you could get a single passenger on? I'm guessing never (I haven't at my current company), because on-time performance is so important. When I was there (Skyway that is) I witnessed this happen all the time. Guess who that passenger is going to fly with next time? We once had a group of nurses on board to MKE who went to Toronto for the day to go shopping. We didn't have cookies on board, and they were mildly disappointed. When we called in range we requested cookies for them and when we got there the operations agent had two or three plates full of cookies for the nurses (and anyone else who happened to be on board). Guess who they will fly with next time? Again, my point is that Midwest does very well at what they do, and they have established themselves a decent little niche market up in MKE. There is no way that they can compete when they become like everyone else (my opinoin). Expressjet may very well be able to provide the sevice that a lot of loyal Milwaukeans have come to expect. Again, I hope this not just about saving money (in which case Expressjet probably would not get the contract), but Midwest has in the past made decisions to save money (again, the rampers).

However it plays out I wish everyone at Skyway the best, and for that matter I wish everyone at Expressjet the best as well. You guys seem to have a good management team that has built your company into what it has become today, and seems poised to carry it into the future.

To answer your question about holding a push for a passenger, we do that all the time.

 

[jws717]

It would realy make alot of sense for Wisconsin to pick this up. It would sove alot of issues at the company.

 

[XJETDriver]

To answer your question about holding a push for a passenger, we do that all the time.

Pax and bags!

 

[Superpilot92]

Pax and bags!

correct, i forgot to mention that.

 

[Hypoxik]

Maybe even waiting for the late arriving cookie truck????

 

[dogtown]

It goes to show how far the definition of service has slipped in our country, I'm not saying that holding a flight a few min isn't a good thing (I think we've all waited for pax before) however I cant say that qualifies as "going above and beyond". Nothing against against Midwest, I have never flown on you guys but I hear it is a nice ride, but it is kind of sad that in a service based industry not leaving a paying custumer behind is put forth as some great thing. Its also sad, and perhaps an explination of why things are the way they are, that a company (like Midwest) that tends to focus on cust. service isn't growing like crazy.
ok I'm done.

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

We didn't have cookies on board, and they were mildly disappointed. When we called in range we requested cookies for them and when we got there the operations agent had two or three plates full of cookies for the nurses (and anyone else who happened to be on board). Guess who they will fly with next time?

Oh yeah? Well, one time we were short a meal, so I gave the passenger my sliced salami out of my crew meal. So there.

 

[CFIse]

To answer your question about holding a push for a passenger, we do that all the time.

Does it make sense to inconvenience all the other passengers on the flight waiting for one dumbass who can't make it to the gate on time?

Discuss.....

 

[Superpilot92]

Does it make sense to inconvenience all the other passengers on the flight waiting for one dumbass who can't make it to the gate on time?

Discuss.....

I didnt say we held for 30 minutes but we have waited a few minutes. depends on the situation. Discuss....

 

[slackass]

I know the original direction of this thread was about the speculation of Express Jet flying for Midwest/Skyway. It seems as if it has drifted to a Skyway thread. Before I comment let me say that I am in favor of all the Midwest and Skyway pilots. I've wanted to work for Skyway in the past and still have my eye on Midwest. That being said it seems that if Skyway wanted to maintain the quality that is considered the "Best care in the air" they would obtain the aircraft for their own company. Unfortunately the reality is cost. Midwests financial condition is at best questionable. In the age of lowcost carriers their niche of catering to the buisness traveler is admirable but may be unrealistic. Watching Midwest get rid of all their baggage handlers and contract with their subsidiary Skyway may have been just the beginning of getting their costs under control. In order for Skyway to move to RJ's it would take a significant cash committment for down payments, to the tune of 4 million per airframe, as few lenders consider the airline industry a good investment. I believe lease rates for 50 seaters is around $65,000 per month. (If someone has more recent numbers feel free to correct me). The options I see is for Midwest/Skyway to outsource their flying if they want to move to an all jet fleet. Unfortunately that leaves the dedicated employees of Skyway out in the cold. The other option is for Midwest to dump its wholly owned regional Skyway which is what all other carriers basically did just before filing for bankruptcy. Express Jet may be a nice fit although 50 seaters are just not that profitable anymore with gas being what it is. 70 seats+ seems to be the rage these days. I'm not a doom and gloom sort of guy. Just a realist.

 

[mckpickle]

65K.....I wish. Xjt got the original contracts for the ERJ series. They were paying just over 100K a month. Add the 2% increase due to the sub lease from CAL and thay are up just a bit more. But it is still a very competitive rate for 50 seat a/c. The ONLY validity I give to this whole XJT/Midwest things is the number 10. Under the CPA with CAL we cannot fly for anyone unless we give CAL the same price on flying...IE the most favored nation clause. That clause does have one exception.....if we fly 10 or fewer A/C for the other carriers. Hence why the number 10 has peeked my interest.


As far as service goes...who knows. I'm sure Skyway is a great airline. But I do recall the problems that ACA had with the DoJets. Lots of engine changes MX problems etc. XJT has a very very high completion rate. The lowest controlable completion factor I've ever heard was 99.7%. Those numbers alone would imply that XJT can deliver very good service.

 

[dwstl2327]

hey cfi not all pax are late because they just are slow and get to the airport late. ever hear of a late inbound? maybe because mke slows you to 210 every dang time we check on, or for some other reason (wx in bos or phl)... so we wait till the pax or any other pax gets to our flight from a connecting flight.

on another note: going beyond the call of duty, maybe when you show up to the plane at 5am and there isnt food or drinks for the sorry saps traveling out of cleveland, so the gate goes and buys oj, milk and donuts. or any of the countless other things our stations do for us.

 

[jws717]

express jet will be in mke when pigs fly

 

[ERJFO]

express jet will be in mke when pigs fly

As in G0Jets or CAL flow throughs? Either way it looks like your requirement has been met.