New NJ Local?

[WrknStff]

So is the NJ pilots union forming a new, fractional only local in addition to voting in a new MEC? Have heard this rumor from some NJ guys on the road and now from a thread on flops. If true and they are getting a new local, that would be good news. Morale at FLOPS is hitting new lows and if there was a new teamsters local sending out cards to options pilots now, I think we'd join pretty quickly.

Management at flops have been screwing it up by the numbers and if they wanted a union on property, they couldn't be doing more to encourage the pilots to vote it in than they are doing now.

If there are any teamsters out there with the pull, get those cards in the mail again and you'd have almost a thousand more pilots paying dues in no time.

 

[Diesel]

Association of Shared Aircraft Pilots. ASAP

On the 22nd of December we will be breaking away from Local 284 and it's band of crooked losers.

Strong union the mec slate when voted in will be instrumental in making sure that we get out of the sinking ship we call Local 284.

We will stay with the Teamsters but finally get the support that we need from our OWN local.

Bye bye loser HP

 

[cosmotheassman]

How many pilots would a company have to have in order to unionize??

 

[WrknStff]

Hmmmm... let me think. Two?

 

[minimums]

Flight Options

Association of Shared Aircraft Pilots. ASAP

On the 22nd of December we will be breaking away from Local 284 and it's band of crooked losers.

Strong union the mec slate when voted in will be instrumental in making sure that we get out of the sinking ship we call Local 284.

We will stay with the Teamsters but finally get the support that we need from our OWN local.

Bye bye loser HP

Pick up the phone and call us boys & girls over at Flight Options. If you want the largest, most powerful local union to represent all of the fractional pilots and their families, get us involved.

It is time to send a message to the management of our fractional companies. They have made enough money over the years, time to share the wealth and start treating us with respect.

We deserve it because? We are:

1. the lifeblood of our respective companies;
2. the frontline of contact with our owners;
3. away from our families for 7/8 days at a time;
4. tired of pay decreases;
5. tired of the quality of life issues;
6. tired of doing everyone elses job in addition to our own;
7. in need of cost of living increases;
8. seeing insurance premium increases, what about our COL pay?
9. tired of seeing per diem and other benefits stripped w/o legitimite reasons;
10. tired of seeing repeat maintenance squawks;
11. tired of seeing radical policy changes at a whim to suit the company;
12. just tired!

etc., etc., etc. I am sure many can add to this list and I would like to see it. I have spent 5 years in my position at FO's. I have seen many, many changes. Some have been good, some not so good and some just absolutely assanine.

I have been a member of two unions. Neither benefited me much. I am not a fan of the Teamsters either. I don't think the Teamsters have given the Netjet's pilots the support they deserved. As an outsider looking in, it just looked like the Teamster's rolled over and settled for subpar standards, just like most BIG businesses do when push comes to shove.

Unions are a business, but with the apparent formation of a "fractional" union led by (MEC) fractional pilots who are not willing to take anymore "stuff", I think it would benefit all the fractional pilot groups to pool together and finally take a stand. (Even if it is with the teamsters).

Thoughts?

 

[rajflyboy]

interesting to say the least

 

[NJAFracPilot]

Pick up the phone and call us boys & girls over at Flight Options. If you want the largest, most powerful local union to represent all of the fractional pilots and their families, get us involved.

It is time to send a message to the management of our fractional companies. They have made enough money over the years, time to share the wealth and start treating us with respect.

We deserve it because? We are:

1. the lifeblood of our respective companies;
2. the frontline of contact with our owners;
3. away from our families for 7/8 days at a time;
4. tired of pay decreases;
5. tired of the quality of life issues;
6. tired of doing everyone elses job in addition to our own;
7. in need of cost of living increases;
8. seeing insurance premium increases, what about our COL pay?
9. tired of seeing per diem and other benefits stripped w/o legitimite reasons;
10. tired of seeing repeat maintenance squawks;
11. tired of seeing radical policy changes at a whim to suit the company;
12. just tired!

etc., etc., etc. I am sure many can add to this list and I would like to see it. I have spent 5 years in my position at FO's. I have seen many, many changes. Some have been good, some not so good and some just absolutely assanine.

I have been a member of two unions. Neither benefited me much. I am not a fan of the Teamsters either. I don't think the Teamsters have given the Netjet's pilots the support they deserved. As an outsider looking in, it just looked like the Teamster's rolled over and settled for subpar standards, just like most BIG businesses do when push comes to shove.

Unions are a business, but with the apparent formation of a "fractional" union led by (MEC) fractional pilots who are not willing to take anymore "stuff", I think it would benefit all the fractional pilot groups to pool together and finally take a stand. (Even if it is with the teamsters).

Thoughts?

Yeah, maybe a union can do the same great job for you as it did fo us.

 

[minimums]

Yeah, maybe a union can do the same great job for you as it did fo us.

Believe me, I am no fan of unions, especially the teamsters. Your union and your local MEC dropped the ball for all of you NJ's pilot's and your families.

However, your new collective voice has the right idea. If all the fractional pilots joined together and created a new LOCAL, even a new union, we may all have a fighting chance.

I guess we all have a choice. Roll over and let management continue to rule as they are; submit to the Teamsters and accept their infinite wisdom and accept the fact that the former MEC, "got all they could for you" and move on; OR take control of your own stick and fight back.

I am sure there are many lawyers out there that would love to tackle such a contract.

Just food for thought.

 

[Starman]

Yeah, maybe a union can do the same great job for you as it did fo us.

And you helped exactly how?

December 22nd is coming quickly enough. There's going to be a new sheriff in town.

 

[realityman]

First, I am no fan of unions either. BUT, after having worked for a nonunion operation prior to NJA (Corporate Wings in Cleveland), I can safely say that even our present lame representation is way WAY better than no representation.

I'm not an actual MEC member of the SU slate, but if I've read everything they've put out correctly, when they are elected on December 22 their first and second priorities (both about equal in importance) are to immediately begin proceedings to form our own local and get us the best contract possible. I also believe one of the long-term goals will be to offer membership to any fractional group that wishes to join. However, the new SU's plate will be very full for a while, and I doubt they will immediately begin campaiging at the other fractionals for membership. When they have successfully negotiated a good contract for us I believe the other fractionals will definitely be thinking hard about joining.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying anyone wishing to join wouldn't be welcome. Quite the opposite. Again, the long-term goal is to have as many fractionals become part of the union as possible. What I'm saying is that there's a lot to be done before actively approaching any other company. This new fractional local needs to spread it's wings before it can fly.

Anyway, just my opinion as to what will be happening as of Dec. 22.

 

[minimums]

Again, the long-term goal is to have as many fractionals become part of the union as possible.

There are 939 pilots at Flight Options. I am sure that a majority of these pilots would be willing to support a fractional union if ballots went out today. Of course, the top echelon of this group is questionable.

 

[Diesel]

Our top echelon is questionable too but we were still able to vote this pos ta down by 82 percent even without their help.

SU is working hard to make sure we have respect finally as a pilot group within our own company.

Right now if they could try and make us fly 24hrs a day with no food they would. Our contract and status quo is the only thing keeping them from doing it.

Of course they are trying to get relief from subpart K. Not going to happen.

 

[bizjet737]

Pick up the phone and call us boys & girls over at Flight Options. If you want the largest, most powerful local union to represent all of the fractional pilots and their families, get us involved.

actually, YOU have to ask for the representation from the teamsters. then, they'll come and try to organize. you have to call them up, get your "sign-up cards" or whatever they're called, and have 50%+1 return them asking for teamsters representation. YOU have to do the work first.

 

[Frac Daddy]

actually, YOU have to ask for the representation from the teamsters. then, they'll come and try to organize. you have to call them up, get your "sign-up cards" or whatever they're called, and have 50%+1 return them asking for teamsters representation. YOU have to do the work first.

Problem is, every time the IBT comes around, they try force us into their POS 747 local.

 

[netjetwife]

Realityman, that is a good summary of the situation. Although we don't hear talk of inviting others to join right now, I also believe that it's because they (SU) have their hands full and want to be successful with their dual mission--good contract and new local. I recall, back when the move to form their own local first came out, a question about the FAs joining was asked. The answer was that it would not be considered at this time as it would be a distraction, but the wording of the answer left the door open for the future. I see no reason why the same answer wouldn't apply to other fractional pilots and have to believe (based on what I know about SU) that ASAP--Association of Shared Aircraft Pilots--was a name chosen after much deliberate thinking of the future. I think that it'd be a great idea for all the fractional pilots to band together, and let their collective voices be heard, loud and clear. NJ pilots are getting back to the original meaning of a union and realizing that THEY are the union and must actively control their own destinies. This reminds me of a card I found when doing a word search on "destiny". It's perfect for this post! Please understand that I AM NOT claiming to be a pilot; it is the message that I like.

http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=109261368&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999

ALL PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE PAID AS SUCH

A RISING TIDE SHOULD LIFT ALL BOATS

 

[ultrarunner]

Why the heck to you folks have such a big hard-on for Teamsters?? Why the heck in this day and age, would you NOT form your own internal union?

Look at the couple of airlines that have them.

If I were at FLOPS, I'd take my chances with management rather than Teamsters. Good grief.

 

[netjetwife]

Ultrarunner, look at the size of those airline unions and also the infrastructure costs associated with running such an organization. NJ pilots have no great love for the Teamsters; many negative comments can be heard about them, in fact. Forming their own local is viewed as the best situation right now. The supportive, positive statements coming from the NJ group, in reference to a union, apply to the pilots themselves and their leadership (soon to be recognized officially as the new MEC) for, as they have learned, THEY are the union. THAT is where their confidence is placed. NJW--1 of many

 

[ultrarunner]

If they have the commitment and knowlege level to form their own MEC, then they should easily be able to de-certify the IBT, and form their own NJPA.

Then, and only then, will they be in control of their own destiny. IMO.

 

[netjetwife]

It isn't a matter only of commitment and knowledge--there is no shortage of those requirements. As with so many things, it also comes down to money. Do you really think that the Teamsters would just hand over all that money (dues) and wish them luck if they were looking to decertify? The leadership of the group does believe that they will be in charge of their fate AND FUNDS when they get their own local. They must also prepare for, and win, a good/fair contract. It appears that the IBT is paying attention to what the NJ pilots want and are willing to accomodate, rather than lose, them. That degree of autonomy will allow them them to focus on the negotiations. There is widespread support for that strategy; I'm not sure there would be for a complete break, at this time.

 

[bravodude]

diesel interesting comment since you had this to say on another post
"Our company not our union won't even pay us past 14hrs because they don't want to entice pilots to keep flying to earn extra bling bling"