new manufacturing jobs by g.w.

[Tim47SIP]

Cant see the forest through the tree!

don't know what old slick did that was so wrong my taxes are still the same as before.The job market sure is in worst shape than when slick was running the place.how can you let the big business transfere jobs overseas then give them tax breaks. Kraft foods for one the top 5 executives received million dollar bounuses while they get ride of 6000 employees.and send jobs overseas.Then send how many billions to Iraq. Don't get me wrong they should take the fight to thes.o.b's. But if I remember right that it was in afganistan that the enemy was not iraq don't you think that G.W. is just doing dad's job from the last time?

Well Timebuilder beat me to it, but I'll add one more. Not only did the Clinton Administration put in place NAFTA and GATT, but they also added China's favored nation agreement. The textile industry was moving overseas way before the Bush administration. GM and Walmart were transfering job to Mexico and growing there many years ago. All of this under the eyes of the Clinton adminstration. Now Kerry, who was a primary participant in passing these programs, is the same guy who is blaming Bush for them. The pot calling the kettle black. Oh, I forgot, when confronted on that very issue, he (Kerry) stated that he knows better now. Why did it take him so long to figure it out? What a jack A$$

No, your taxes have changed. Everyones has and for the better. Here are the numbers although I know you dont like to be confused by facts.

2002
0-12,000 - 10%
12,000- 46,700 - 15%
46,701-112,850 - 27%
112,851 - 171,950 - 30%
171,951 - 307,050 - 35%
307,051 + -38.6%

2003
0-14,000 - 10%
14,000 - 56,000 - 15%
56,001 - 146,650 - 25%
146,651 - 174,700 - 28%
174,701 - 311,950 - 33%
311,951 + - 35%

Looks like Bush is really catering to just the richest as Kerry states. Of course the Dems wont show you this breakdown either.

No, Bush is NOT finishing up his Dad's job. That is a usual notion that Dems put out to slander the current administrations policy. They just don't have anything else but to continue dirty politics and sleazy dealings as a way of normal business.

 

[surfnole]

Bart, I wonder why you have so much turnover in your American call centers. I work for a software company, and we have had almost zero turnovers in our American call centers since the dot.com crash.

We are shipping jobs fast and furiously to India, and the only thing that stops us from shipping more is they refuse to work all night to support American business operations during our day. I guess we don't want to pay them 20K a year for that instead of 10K a year.

To the poster who said

***
Outsourcing is only an issue if you have no job skills.
***

Thats completely false. Today IT is going overseas. Tomorrow its accounting, finance, engineering....just about everything except for management, sales and field/sales support.

 

[310]

sqwkvfr, manufacturing is where wealth is created, whether it be growing crops or creating something in a factory. Service jobs just move the pie pieces around but does not make the pie any larger like manufacturing does. Typical pay is in the $15 to $25 dollar an hour range- non union and much more demanding than most other work. Hours are usually good also :7a to 330p plus time and a half over 40.
The difference must be realized that by moving a job out of the country, we are increasing the trade deficit, which moves wealth out of the country-- so in the long term it is more expensive that paying americans wages a little higher. If we let mexicans in the country to do the low wage stuff that does not help us in the long term either because they send so much of their money back to mexico. The number one GNP item of mexico is their oil industry, number two is money orders from the US.
In North Carolina, Mexicans make about 5 percent of the population but account for 35 persent of arrests for drug trafficing.
We have mexican and el salvadorian gangs puting their grafitti on property in the suburbs of Raleigh. We need to look at what is best for the US in the long term instead of letting it turn into a third world nation. Enforce the border laws. Deport them.
I am a Republican that may not vote this time because Bush is too liberal. soft on china(communist), soft on mexico, does not care about manufacturing, etc.
then again I may vote because of abortion, second amendment rights, taxes, Irag ( I support the war)

 

[Timebuilder]

I think the kind of manufacturing that we're doing is intellectual property, and that we will change and morph to stay on top, just as we have done in the past.

I am a Republican that may not vote this time because Bush is too liberal. soft on china(communist),

Our relationship with the Chinese will be what helps to foment change in that country as well. Before you know it, the Chinese people will insist on freedom.

soft on mexico

...and skillfully removing this from the democrat's plate, effectively "eating their lunch."

does not care about manufacturing, etc.

"Caring" and recognizing what economists council is best for the nation, long term, are two different things. We can't "pull our heads into the shell" and still be a global participant. GW even addressed that this past week in a speech. Good for him.

So many reasons to keep the president in office, and so much work to do with complacent voters who listen to Kerry soundbites.

Let not your heart be troubled. Thanks, Sean.

 

[sqwkvfr]

sqwkvfr, manufacturing is where wealth is created, whether it be growing crops or creating something in a factory. Service jobs just move the pie pieces around but does not make the pie any larger like manufacturing does.

This was a great stump speech....10 or 15 years ago....but the simple fact is that we are competing in a global marketplace, and the pie is much larger and complex than can be contained within the US borders.

I agree.....Bush is just too freakin liberal...this prescription drug mess, and several other domestic policies have driven me up the wall and made it tough for me to defend my party's man on certain issues.

But John Kerry is NOT the answer, and if you don't vote, you might as well be voting for him.

Maybe in five years, we'll get a REAL Republican for Prez...until then, I'll take G-DUB with a smile.....he's really not that bad.

 

[RobS]

Wow, some of you guys are so ignorant. First of all those jobs that you are going overseas are NOT just 6$ a hour manufacturing jobs. They are white collar, high paying, and high skilled jobs. Most of the new jobs being outsourced REQUIRE a degree. Jobs such as software engineers, computer engineers, call centers, and accountants to just name a few. This is unfair trade as there is absolutely no way an American worker can compete with an Indian or Chinese worker. Our QOL and SOL is much higher than that of China and India, so our workers need to be payed more. Oh yea I forgot to mention that many of the larger corporations that outsource have contributed a good amount of money to the Bush Campaign. Companies such as Dell, IBM, Motorola, and AT&T wireless.

When manufacturing jobs went overseas, the government told the people to retrain in high tech jobs. Now those are going overseas. What do we do now? The only jobs that are going to be left are part time no benefits jobs at Wal Mart or the wonderful jobs at fast food joints as us Americans get fatter.

Also can someone explain why we have one of the largest budget deficts in history? I really want to see what happens when the baby boomers start to retire.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5831.htm

that is an excellent article/video that explains the problems we will face if Bush is reelected.

Well I'm done for now. I'm ready to be flamed by Republicans and hopefully understood by fellow Democrats.

 

[Timebuilder]

I think what you are describing is the growing pains of an increasingly global labor market. This might have been delayed by a more sensible legal and regulatory environment in the US, but eventually we had to go through this "equalling out" process. We must concentrate on what we do best, and create new ideas to help that along.

I must add that all of the companies that outsource ALSO support the democrats. Most companies support both parties.

For all his warts, like prescription drugs (not one of MY favorite ideas, but a thumb in the democrat eye, for sure) Bush is still my choice in '04.

If Spock was right, and "only Nixon could go to China," then only someone like Condi Rice could be a true conservative in the white house. Instant teflon.

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

Thought I would throw this in, a friend of mine had an x-ray awhile back, guess where the doctor was who read it and transmitted the findings, you guessed it India. At this particular hospital the x-rays are immediatley transmitted overseas to be read by a radiologist. The radiologist sends his/her findings back over the internet. I asked my wife who works in the medical field if this was common and she said more so everyday. They also are starting to do more than simple x-rays. The really great thing is that these hospitals are saving moocho cash but still charging the same rates.

I guess wiggums would consider a radiologist to have no job skills.

 

[Timebuilder]

I saw a special the other day on just that situation. A whole bunch of Indian radiologists looking at computer screens.

US pay: 90k.

India pay: 28k.

For that money, they can hire a couple of thousand Lear FO's.

 

[Wiggums]

Article on outsourcing...

Yes, some white collar jobs are going overseas also. However, these workers are more able to retrain for different work. They typically will have the ability and the resources needed to invest in a different career. It's unfortunate, however, for less skilled workers because typically they have neither the basic education or resources to retrain. Bush has begun to address this issue, see this article.

On an individual basis outsourcing of jobs will cause temporary hardship. However, if you step back and look at what is good for the economy for all Americans things are going pretty good. The GDP is rising without many new jobs being created yet, which in some ways is good. The fact that we are producing more with the same workers means that productivity is up, which is basically the only hope we have of paying for the coming retirement of baby boomers.

As a worker in this economy I understand that my job could go at anytime. If this does happen, I am prepared for it and I will go back to school and retrain for another career. There will be plenty of new, interesting career fields in the future. America has more capital for research then any other companies, and Americans are the first to get there hands on jobs created in these new fields. How many careers can you think of today that didn't exist 50, 20, or even 10 years ago.

 

[wil]

To all you libs- How about insourcing jobs? Let's see what cars are made here; Toyota, Subaru, Mercedes, BMW...

We live in a global economy whether you like it or not. And, last I checked, your role model the good ol' USSR went in the tank.

I know it is hard to see your ideas fail and be swept into the dust-bin of history. But, just remember, as liberalism slips away and loosens it's death grip on humanity, true achievement and freedom to pursue our destinies unfettered are just around the corner.

 

[Wiggums]

After more research I may have to retract my statement about jobs not being created. I've discovered some crediable research that suggests the way we measure jobs is not completely accurate. Productivity is still on the rise, but more then likely the job numbers we have from 2000-2001 are too high, and the job numbers we have today are too low. On an interesting note, the last time we supposedly have a "jobless recovery", back in 1991-1992, the numbers turned out to be wrong, in 1993-1994 the BLS revised employment numbers which showed that jobs were created during 1992, which might have caused the election that year to turn out different.

 

[Timebuilder]

Thread hijacked to flying.

Wiggums, have you been flying that airplane in the avatar? It's been a while since I looked out the window and saw that tank.

 

[Wiggums]

The avtar looks like a 35, I think I see the wing extension in there...I fly the 24/25 along with Falcons. Ironicly, my job is tied to manufacturing, and we are getting real busy.

Interesting article that explains why our jobs data might not be completely accurate.

 

[surfnole]

Lets take this outsourcing issue to its logical conclusion. The premise of the argument for those in favor of outsourcing seems to be that its good for Americans because we can buy things cheaper.

Hypothetically, the best of all possible worlds would be one in which we could buy things as cheap as possible. I propose dropping all H1B visa requirements and costs and allow as many foreigners to come here and work as possible. If true competition is so fantastic, lets really compete and not just pretend and mouth platitudes toward a free market economy.

Anybody passing the bar can be a lawyer, anyone board certified can be a doctor, anyone passing the CPA exam can be a CPA, regardless of nationality. Anybody with 500 hours single 100 multi can be hired by an airline. Forgive me if my hours aren't correct.

Within 10 years, 10s of millions American jobs would be lost due to foreigners filling the positions for less money. But ultimately, this would be good for all of us since we could buy things cheaper. Correct?

Lets take it another step, rescind all laws against cabotage and allow foreign carriers to fly point to point in the US. This would be the best for the US consumer, because we could buy cheaper airline tickets as a result. Truly a great plan for America.

 

[Checks]

Surfnhole...GREAT POST.

WIGGUMS, you are so wrong. Outsourcing is horrible for the US.