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CLARKGRSWOLD

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Posts
278
As a "poolie" at SW I am really re thinking going to SW now. Bottom of an 8K pilot group, feeling like SW will ditch the 717 eventually,( possible future furlough) no movement for years, 15 year upgrade at best, doesn't sound promising. All to sit RSV on a 737 in OAK/PHX and commute across the country home. ( ********************ty QOL )But the pay and benefits are worth it and SW has never furlough anyway.( every airline furloughs eventually ) Any thoughts ?
 
And what is your alternative? Start at the bottom of a list of even more guys? Who will probably furlough for sure at some point in the future. At least SWA never has, and I for one think that they never will. They've been through the ringer lots of times before, and haven't furloughed yet. And, what, 37 straight years of profitability?
 
Id rather start at the bottom of a list that will have significant movement. Not knocking SW but as new hire there may be better options. Half of AA's and US (east) pilots will be gone in 10 years, can you say the same about SW? Its about movement and SW has ZERO. Just saying.
 
You are correct. There has been NO movement in 2 years at SWA. I don't know the answer but will say you are just taking a snapshot of NOW. What about tomorrow? Will they be growing? I dont think they purchased AAI so that they would just stand still. Just my thoughts.

Bake
 
Good point. I think that, with the wages that SWA FO's make, and the awesome work environment, you would have a great career there anyway. I know a guy that doesn't plan to ever upgrade there since they dropped the mandatory upgrade. Good trips, great days off, great money - sounds good to me. Unless you just have to have the upgrade.
 
The average age at each major would be a great stat to have. Great money and benefits aren't worth a turd if you can enjoy them. I have no idea where to send my app these days.
 
CLARKGRSWOLD said:
As a "poolie" at SW I am really re thinking going to SW now.
Click to expand...

Ask the guys who passed on a class at SWA when we were running classes pretty regular. They are all pretty much kicking themselves. If you are so concerned about another carrier retiring large numbers in the future, where do you plan on working between now and then?

I say that there is no heavier burden than a missed opportunity, especially if you are in the first class that runs in Jan and have 200 to follow.

Dick
 
Richard Gozinya said:
Ask the guys who passed on a class at SWA when we were running classes pretty regular. They are all pretty much kicking themselves. If you are so concerned about another carrier retiring large numbers in the future, where do you plan on working between now and then?

I say that there is no heavier burden than a missed opportunity, especially if you are in the first class that runs in Jan and have 200 to follow.

Dick
Click to expand...

Take the job you have.... when another opportunity knocks, then it's time to ponder..... unless your leaving a pretty good setup right now....... as long as the steps are always in the right direction..... even baby steps.
 
CLARKGRSWOLD said:
Half of AA's and US (east) pilots will be gone in 10 years, can you say the same about SW? Its about movement and SW has ZERO. Just saying.
Click to expand...

Enjoy your time at either of those companies. If you are really in the pool for Southwest then hopefully you applied there because you like the culture and what they have to offer (including pay). To suggest that now you want to get out of the pool because you will have to be an FO for a little longer while making six figures... maybe Southwest wasn't the best place for you anyway.
 
Bake said:
You are correct. There has been NO movement in 2 years at SWA. I don't know the answer but will say you are just taking a snapshot of NOW. What about tomorrow? Will they be growing? I dont think they purchased AAI so that they would just stand still. Just my thoughts.

Bake
Click to expand...

RESPECTFULLY, where else can the new SWA grow? Sounds like SWA has the country covered now thanks to the AT merger. There are only so many gates, slots, and runways out there that can handle more flights. SWA has maxed out operations in BWI, MDW, PHX, LAS, DEN(not a crew base yet), MCO (any more gates available there? add AT gates there too), TPA, ISP, DAL, HOU, SLC, etc. AT has hubs in ATL and MKE, with a smaller focus city in BWI. They are getting slots in EWR, but that airport is already maxed out. LGA can't really grow any more. ORD is slot controlled. LAX terminal 1 is maxed out. Get the picture yet? I guess they can try Hawaii stuff, but that is a long way out. I don't see much growing in the next few years. How many SWA Captains are near Age 65 now? That will be your movement. Like a bowl movement...(feels good)

Regardless, ALL OF YOU ARE FANTASTIC, and the lack of movement at your new airline won't matter when you remember that you NOW HAVE THE SWA CULTURE THAT EVERYONE LOVES THERE. PURE LOVE AND PEACE BABY! Just because AA co-pilots are the same age as the AA Captains, and those same FOs are now in their 50s with no major movement opportunities, doesn't mean you can't be happy at the new SWA, because you have a great SWA CULTURE. SAY IT WITH ME--CUL---TURE. It's SPECIAL BABY, SPECIAL! FUN PEOPLE, FUN TIMES. If you have time today, please, please do something nice for someone or something, like teaching young kids the meaning of "a good work ethic" by allowing them to clean the garage until 11pm tonight. See ya!


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
I have talked to SWA Captains and FO's and they are very happy with their jobs. For those who are SWA FO's and not climbing the ladder to the left seat as quickly as they desire, be happy you have a career with a company like SWA!! There are many pilots out there who would love to be working for your company, and be in your position as a first officer. In this economy, be thankful you have a job you have trained hard to achieve!!!
 
Think again....with the addition of AirTran's folks and the way GK has been going try 20+ years. TWENTY + Believe it. Bottom of the list guys were looking at north of 18 years prior to the merger announcement.

In short order I predict that WN will start losing guys from the FO ranks once Dec 2012 hits. Reference the various threads on retirements at Delta/AA/CO-UA. Much, much better list movement. It the situation works for somebody, they're gonna take it.

Nobody's leaving prior to 65 at WN....and our retirements average ~140/yr for a long time.

YMMV....
 
I liked the old General Lee and I like the new one too! Quite humorous.

CLARKGRSWOLD - don't go to SWA. Then in a few years when you haven't been able to get to another major and are stuck at a regional as RJs are being dumped in favor of mainline flying you too can complain about the evil major pilots.

So you won't make Captain quickly at SWA. As a SWA FO you will make better money than at your regional. Further, going to SWA does not stop you from changing airlines in the future if the opportunity arises. But if it doesn't, being stuck as a SWA FO is better than being stuck as a regional Captain.
 
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CLARKGRSWOLD said:
As a "poolie" at SW I am really re thinking going to SW now. Bottom of an 8K pilot group, feeling like SW will ditch the 717 eventually,( possible future furlough) no movement for years, 15 year upgrade at best, doesn't sound promising. All to sit RSV on a 737 in OAK/PHX and commute across the country home. ( ********************ty QOL )But the pay and benefits are worth it and SW has never furlough anyway.( every airline furloughs eventually ) Any thoughts ?
Click to expand...


If you are in the pool at SWA, I would take the job. Southwest is a great company and has an excellent track record. In this business you can't tell the future but you can evaluate based on the information you have, and the info on SWA is good. Great culture, great people and a seemingly knowledgable management in place that wants to continue on their path.

Movement? There isn't any movement anywhere and won't be for another few years. There is more to a job than upgrade time.

You will be on reserve for a while anywhere. I am in my 3rd year at Delta and still on reserve. It isn't that bad but that's the case nontheless.

Take it!!
 
A phrase you'll learn at Swa--

"it's all about you isn't it..." said tongue in cheek usually- if it's said serious- that's not good-

The job is no different- but the company is very different- if you're not into that you should drop out w/ no regrets -

And I agree- upgrade? Really? That's regional thinking
 
CLARKGRSWOLD said:
Id rather start at the bottom of a list that will have significant movement. Not knocking SW but as new hire there may be better options. Half of AA's and US (east) pilots will be gone in 10 years, can you say the same about SW? Its about movement and SW has ZERO. Just saying.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%, Delta is the same way in regards to retirements. Why stagnate on the bottom when you could catch a wave at one of the majors? If you had no other option than take SWA but if you have other options, i'd seriously consider them. Good luck
 
Yes- I think you're right- in fact every pilot w/ an employee # less than 88000 should go if you're thinking about it- even if you're a lance- I mean this career has just not been fair to you-
Go now, be free of this southwest pariah
 
Clark,

When I first came on this forum over 11 yrs ago your question was asked but in regards to leaving to go to DAL, NWA, UAL, AA, CAL, US Air and other legacies.

The only difference now is that 11 yrs later NWA, CAL are no longer around, US Air has major issues and now SWA is included in the group you are considering.

All depends on what your priorities are basically.

If you want the max $$s, today it could be argued it is SWA or one of the cargo ops. What will that be in 5-10 yrs?

You could be disappointed if that is your top priority so be careful using that criteria.

International flying? A little at SWA and probably some more in the future (10 yrs) but probably not on the scale of the other legacies until possibly many years later.

Big metal? Other legacies are a sure bet, SWA less so until years down the road.

Job security and culture. Look at the last 39 yrs and determine which company has the best track record....like the stock experts say, "past performance doesn't guarantee future returns"; however, QOL and a positive work environment is tough to measure but for most of those at SWA who have worked at other airlines the consensus is consistently "it is much better at SWA than my previous airline". Not an official survey but simply my experience.

Some see SWA growing little after the completion of the merger....maybe, maybe not....AAI has 32 ATL gates...AAI has around 200 flights there...with that many gates SWA could generate 100 more flights a day...lots of connections between SWA cities and ATL....add Wright Amendment changes in 2014 and inevitable expansion due to new opportunities and retirements of 140-160 a year beginning in 2013.

Lots of retirements at the others also, percentage wise probably a greater number. Good luck in your decision....fly safe.

Lastly, write down the five most important things you want in your new company....make the best decision based upon those five criteria and then put the piece of paper away and then look at it again every couple of years and realize if you change the priorities then you will be disappointed...it won't be the airline's fault....the airline you choose will not change its stripes for you or anyone else unless its leadership does.

Choose carefully grasshopper.
 
desolo said:
I think he's lost his mind, please don't kick him off flight info, he might commit suicide....too funny.
Click to expand...
I'm not on here all that much. I hated reading his post, but I must admit that he cracks me up now. General, keep it up!
I will disagree about SWA. They still have a lot of expanding they can do - Caribbean, S.America, and Central America. Just saying.
 

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