New Delta Connection Carriers

[JoeMerchant]

But binding a Company to its pilots is not what the RJDC seeks through its lawsuit. Furthermore, the RJDC does not differentiate between wholly owned or not. Surely you must know this. The RJDC does not believe that any pilot group can control its airline's code. You do know that, don't you?

FDJ2,
This is not correct. The RJDC does believe that a pilot group can control it's own airline's code. What the RJDC does not believe is that a pilot group can control another pilot group and still uphold ALPA's DFR.

An example would be if ASA or CMR were to start flying 737's as ASA or CMR. Outside of the Delta code, I do not believe that ALPA thru the DALMEC has a right to stop that.

The RJDC believes scope is important. How that scope is used and managed is just as important. Are we looking out for ourselves - YOU BETTCHA WE ARE!

Joe

 

[~~~^~~~]

FDJ: You are twisting statements and you know it. Scope binds a company to its pilots. "All Delta flying performed by Delta pilots" is an example of scope.

What you advocate is using one airline's scope to control another airlines' flying - that is not scope, it is a remote control device.

If the Delta MEC wants RJ flying, fine, take it. However, if you have no interest in performing RJ flying, then allow the pilots performing that flying to engage in the legal collective bargaining process without blocking their efforts to gain scope.

Your MEC's "remote control" of RJ flying has unleased an alter ego storm that is coming ashore on your 737's and MD88's. As your MEC votes without regard for the "industry," the rest of the industry is eating away at your seniority list (votes) and relevance (fleet size). You need the RJDC, but by the time you realize it we might be eating lunch outside an AirInc. seminar.

 

[fatazz]

CHQ pilots now make more than most mainline FOs

Please tell me you do not really think this.

 

[MedFlyer]

I don't think most ASA/CMR pilots should be that upset. ASA/CMR have enjoyed an unprecedented amount of growth over the last decade. This growth wasn't going to last forever, eventually the growth was going to be shifted back to mainline.

However, mainline has decided they aren't all that interested in growth, so the growth instead has gone to the contract carriers. The flying being done by the SA E170's is replacing mainline.

For example, DL is replacing 2x733 SLC-DTW with 3xE170. DL gets roughly the same capacity, better frequency and a two class product. Everyone's a winner except the DL mainline pilots. They will continue to lose as mainline shrinks.

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ: You are twisting statements and you know it. Scope binds a company to its pilots. "All Delta flying performed by Delta pilots" is an example of scope.

No, I am quoting one of the RJDC's biggest supporters when he was asked a simple question.

Quote:

1. Can the DAL pilot group, or any pilot group own/control their code?






In a word, NO. The “code” under which your airline operates is not owned by the Delta pilots and it is not controlled by the Delta pilots. The “code” is owned by Delta Air Lines, Inc. and they alone “control” it. The same applies to other “codes” owned by other airlines.


I'm not twisting any statements, that's a direct quote.




What you advocate is using one airline's scope to control another airlines' flying - that is not scope, it is a remote control device.

No, you are advocating the elimination of a pilots group's right to bind his company to his contract by eliminating scope. I am simply advocating the right of a pilot group (DALPA) to limit the outsourcing of it's company's code (DL). Again, you have no right to a single hour of DL code flying, it's not your code or your flying. The fact that you chose to work for a contractor is your problem.

 

[JoeMerchant]

CHQ pilots now make more than most mainline FOs

Please tell me you do not really think this.

SENIOR CHQ pilots, not all CHQ pilots, do make more than most mainline FO's. Go look up the payrates fatazz.

 

[JoeMerchant]

No, you are advocating the elimination of a pilots group's right to bind his company to his contract by eliminating scope. I am simply advocating the right of a pilot group (DALPA) to limit the outsourcing of it's company's code (DL). Again, you have no right to a single hour of DL code flying, it's not your code or your flying. The fact that you chose to work for a contractor is your problem.

Tell me FDJ2, does DALPA have the right to control ASA and CMR flying OUTSIDE of the DL code?

 

[~~~^~~~]

No, you are advocating the elimination of a pilots group's right to bind his company to his contract by eliminating scope. I am simply advocating the right of a pilot group (DALPA) to limit the outsourcing of it's company's code (DL). Again, you have no right to a single hour of DL code flying, it's not your code or your flying. The fact that you chose to work for a contractor is your problem.

I wish DALPA had a platform to perform all Delta flying - but apparently it does not want to. Since 2000 your MEC has continued to outsource more and more. Your MEC negotiated it, ALPA National endorsed it and your pilots ratified it.

Once that code is outsourced it then becomes someone else's and they should be able to bind the company to their services.

What the Delta MEC has done is negotiate away their code, then restricted anyone else from having any scope on it - resulting in an alter ego free for all.

As far as quoting RJDC supporters - who cares. Quote the RJDC is you want, but quoting me or some other supporter is like quoting Frank Lorenzo and attributing the quote to President Bush. The RJDC has published plenty on their positions - use legit quotes and perhaps you can effect the course of discussions, otherwise we just go in circles. That is boring.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Tell me FDJ2, does DALPA have the right to control ASA and CMR flying OUTSIDE of the DL code?

Good one. Get 'em Capt. Joe.