New Cool Aid...drink up!!

["GO AROUND"]

Has ALPA suggested this or are they still waiting by the phone?

Yes, both sides agreed to do it in a side letter later when the company said they didn't want to do it now. They both said it was an eventuality and that they could do it with a side letter when they could do it right.

PBS does no just effect secrion 13. It touches about 10 other sections that will have to be re negotiated. All of them TA'd.

So it's not just about adding a PBS. There is a lot that is effected.

 

[John Pennekamp]

If I'm a "management puke", then you are an ALPA "puke". You seem to believe everything ALPA says. That is stupid. ALPA has an agenda as does management. PBS is coming one way or the other. It is the wave of the future. Lets take it, and settle this, and move on. Transferring our jobs to non-union Skywest isn't going to help anyone.

What makes you think our assets won't continue to be transfered, even if we settle as you say?

 

[John Pennekamp]

I don't care what happened in the past. We can't live in the past, we need to work towards the future. Both sides have made mistakes up until this point. There isn't anything "funny" about this. Skywest has PBS. Delta has PBS. CMR has PBS. Why is ASA ALPA so opposed to PBS. Almost every other carrier has PBS.

Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

 

["GO AROUND"]

I agree I have as well and they just say hang in there, I'm so sick of this I wish management would give us something to vote on and vote out ALPA. That's my opionion and many others that I've discussed this with including many in the training dept. Everybody just want's to get this done and are tired of our CNC not giving anyhting. But flame on you die hard union idiots, I'm here all night.

So were those IP's you talked to willing to take the companies proposal on their pay? I don't think so. Sure, everyone wants this done but the company still won't address the issues that are important to the majority.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I mean seriously this contract negotiation shouldn't be drug out any longer that it already has. Can anyone honestly tell me what incentive our MEC has in settling this contract anytime soon? The reps sitting at the table get paid an enormous amount of money in comparison to what they would be making if they were flying the line, so tell me why would they want to give up what they make in salary while they are sitting at the table "negotiating" as they call it? I can't think of one....

Get the facts before you speak. The union reps on full time ALPA leave get paid the equivalent of what they would have made flying the highest line their seniority could hold. That means they are not profiting from this, and if you actually speak to them, most wish they were back flying.

 

[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

You are truely an idiot if you believe that they make more than they could flying the line. They get paid by ALPA the amount of hours that they would be able to hold if they were able to bid. They are facing off against what is probably the most frustrating situation at his airline.
:smash:
I would rather sit 5 hours waiting to park than sit across from management for 5 minutes. Maybe you need to thank one of these guys next time you run into one.

Your way off on that example. Ive been in the plane with you , while chasing UB, DUDE you freak out about not being able to park.

 

[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

12345

 

[wms]

No one is trying to tell you how to vote. But, the senior people here (I am one) are not the majority! Not sure but the overwhelming majority have been here something like 5-6 years.

Last contract, instead of the senior people selling out the junior, ASA ALPA fought for FO pay to come up to 60% of Capt's pay, which is industry standard. So instead of giving ourselves a bigger raise, we senior people gave up some to bring the FO pay up. Something to think about.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

I'm refering to the likes of JM and ASADriver who are trying to sway others because they are senior enough to have it good and don't want to rock the boat. Or have some other chip on their shoulder and would like to see their own agenda go forward at the expense of a good contract for everyone. No offense to the senior guys who stand up for what is right.

 

[goahead]

So were those IP's you talked to willing to take the companies proposal on their pay? I don't think so. Sure, everyone wants this done but the company still won't address the issues that are important to the majority.

Yes they were, just so they could continue with their lives. Plus they said that they could go back to the line and make more anyway.

 

[atrdriver]

Your way off on that example. Ive been in the plane with you , while chasing UB, DUDE you freak out about not being able to park.

That's the point. I HATE waiting to park. And I would rather wait 5 hours to park than sit across from the company negotiators for 5 minutes. Read it again if it still doesn't make sense.

 

[HarryParatestes]

"koolaid" comes from that Jamestown guy in S. America. Kinda like following eachother off a cliff. That IS coming from both sides, not just a company term...

It was Jonestown. Jim Jones named the village in Guyana after himself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

 

[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

That's the point. I HATE waiting to park. And I would rather wait 5 hours to park than sit across from the company negotiators for 5 minutes. Read it again if it still doesn't make sense.

I understand, my #3 fan.
No its funny I just wanted a better comparison cause I'm still laughing !

:laugh:

 

[ASADriver]

What makes you think our assets won't continue to be transfered, even if we settle as you say?

There are never any guarantees. However in this environment with Skywest, the higher our costs, and the longer we threaten to strike, the higher the likelihood that airplanes will be transferred. So do think they will still be transferred even if ALPA gets what it wants?

 

[outtahere]

There are never any guarantees. However in this environment with Skywest, the higher our costs, and the longer we threaten to strike, the higher the likelihood that airplanes will be transferred. So do think they will still be transferred even if ALPA gets what it wants?

How expensive will we get if they start to shrink us? If we continues to fight, and get what we want, we will grow. If we get the contract we want with the scope protections then they won't be able to shrink us, so they will have to grow us to keep the costs down. If they don't well then that is their problem.

 

[ASARJMan]

There are never any guarantees. However in this environment with Skywest, the higher our costs, and the longer we threaten to strike, the higher the likelihood that airplanes will be transferred. So do think they will still be transferred even if ALPA gets what it wants?

More wisdom from flightinfo's #1 management puke! Our costs are lower dork, where do you get your info, under BL's desk? If SKYW wants to transfer them, they will. Pilots just fly the planes. Hey ASADrivel, ASA is cheaper on the 50, how come SKYW isn't transferring all their 50s to ATL?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[ASADriver]

More wisdom from flightinfo's #1 management puke! Our costs are lower dork, where do you get your info, under BL's desk? If SKYW wants to transfer them, they will. Pilots just fly the planes. Hey ASADrivel, ASA is cheaper on the 50, how come SKYW isn't transferring all their 50s to ATL?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

What would our costs be if we got what we were asking for? My guess is quite a bit higher. Actually we are getting more 50 seaters. We gain 50 seaters and lose 70 seaters.

 

["GO AROUND"]

What would our costs be if we got what we were asking for? My guess is quite a bit higher. Actually we are getting more 50 seaters. We gain 50 seaters and lose 70 seaters.

We're not getting more 50 seaters. Only 2 more by the end of next year that have been in the works with the whole GE deal that was made.

 

[John Pennekamp]

What would our costs be if we got what we were asking for? My guess is quite a bit higher. Actually we are getting more 50 seaters. We gain 50 seaters and lose 70 seaters.

You dodged the question. Why aren't Skywest's 50 seaters being transfered here since we're cheaper on the 50? We're only slated for 2 more 50 seaters, and they're coming from GECAS, not Skywest.

 

[John Pennekamp]

There are never any guarantees. However in this environment with Skywest, the higher our costs, and the longer we threaten to strike, the higher the likelihood that airplanes will be transferred. So do think they will still be transferred even if ALPA gets what it wants?

Don't turn the question around, answer it! What makes you think the aircraft transfer will stop if we cave on our contract demands and settle?

I have news for you... they won't stop because Skywest will always be cheaper on the 70 as long as they have a blended rate and no contract protections. Because of the blended rate, their 70s are flown by more junior pilots than ours, who are lower on the pay scale.

 

[ASADriver]

You dodged the question. Why aren't Skywest's 50 seaters being transfered here since we're cheaper on the 50? We're only slated for 2 more 50 seaters, and they're coming from GECAS, not Skywest.

Didn't the GECAS deal include the converted order of 90 seaters that were ASA orders? Jerry won't transfer 50 seaters to ASA because that would reward ALPA. He doesn't want ALPA at Skywest.