New Cool Aid...drink up!!

[HarryParatestes]

"koolaid" comes from that Jamestown guy in S. America. Kinda like following eachother off a cliff. That IS coming from both sides, not just a company term...

It was Jonestown. Jim Jones named the village in Guyana after himself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

 

[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

That's the point. I HATE waiting to park. And I would rather wait 5 hours to park than sit across from the company negotiators for 5 minutes. Read it again if it still doesn't make sense.

I understand, my #3 fan.
No its funny I just wanted a better comparison cause I'm still laughing !

:laugh:

 

[ASADriver]

What makes you think our assets won't continue to be transfered, even if we settle as you say?

There are never any guarantees. However in this environment with Skywest, the higher our costs, and the longer we threaten to strike, the higher the likelihood that airplanes will be transferred. So do think they will still be transferred even if ALPA gets what it wants?

 

[outtahere]

There are never any guarantees. However in this environment with Skywest, the higher our costs, and the longer we threaten to strike, the higher the likelihood that airplanes will be transferred. So do think they will still be transferred even if ALPA gets what it wants?

How expensive will we get if they start to shrink us? If we continues to fight, and get what we want, we will grow. If we get the contract we want with the scope protections then they won't be able to shrink us, so they will have to grow us to keep the costs down. If they don't well then that is their problem.

 

[ASARJMan]

There are never any guarantees. However in this environment with Skywest, the higher our costs, and the longer we threaten to strike, the higher the likelihood that airplanes will be transferred. So do think they will still be transferred even if ALPA gets what it wants?

More wisdom from flightinfo's #1 management puke! Our costs are lower dork, where do you get your info, under BL's desk? If SKYW wants to transfer them, they will. Pilots just fly the planes. Hey ASADrivel, ASA is cheaper on the 50, how come SKYW isn't transferring all their 50s to ATL?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[ASADriver]

More wisdom from flightinfo's #1 management puke! Our costs are lower dork, where do you get your info, under BL's desk? If SKYW wants to transfer them, they will. Pilots just fly the planes. Hey ASADrivel, ASA is cheaper on the 50, how come SKYW isn't transferring all their 50s to ATL?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

What would our costs be if we got what we were asking for? My guess is quite a bit higher. Actually we are getting more 50 seaters. We gain 50 seaters and lose 70 seaters.

 

["GO AROUND"]

What would our costs be if we got what we were asking for? My guess is quite a bit higher. Actually we are getting more 50 seaters. We gain 50 seaters and lose 70 seaters.

We're not getting more 50 seaters. Only 2 more by the end of next year that have been in the works with the whole GE deal that was made.

 

[John Pennekamp]

What would our costs be if we got what we were asking for? My guess is quite a bit higher. Actually we are getting more 50 seaters. We gain 50 seaters and lose 70 seaters.

You dodged the question. Why aren't Skywest's 50 seaters being transfered here since we're cheaper on the 50? We're only slated for 2 more 50 seaters, and they're coming from GECAS, not Skywest.

 

[John Pennekamp]

There are never any guarantees. However in this environment with Skywest, the higher our costs, and the longer we threaten to strike, the higher the likelihood that airplanes will be transferred. So do think they will still be transferred even if ALPA gets what it wants?

Don't turn the question around, answer it! What makes you think the aircraft transfer will stop if we cave on our contract demands and settle?

I have news for you... they won't stop because Skywest will always be cheaper on the 70 as long as they have a blended rate and no contract protections. Because of the blended rate, their 70s are flown by more junior pilots than ours, who are lower on the pay scale.

 

[ASADriver]

You dodged the question. Why aren't Skywest's 50 seaters being transfered here since we're cheaper on the 50? We're only slated for 2 more 50 seaters, and they're coming from GECAS, not Skywest.

Didn't the GECAS deal include the converted order of 90 seaters that were ASA orders? Jerry won't transfer 50 seaters to ASA because that would reward ALPA. He doesn't want ALPA at Skywest.

 

[ASADriver]

Don't turn the question around, answer it! What makes you think the aircraft transfer will stop if we cave on our contract demands and settle?

I have news for you... they won't stop because Skywest will always be cheaper on the 70 as long as they have a blended rate and no contract protections. Because of the blended rate, their 70s are flown by more junior pilots than ours, who are lower on the pay scale.

Why not match their cost then? Who cares about what the rate is if we don't have them anymore? I think the lower our 70 seat cost, the less likelyhood they will transfer them. Now answer why you think getting a huge payraise on the 70 will prevent them from being transferred?

 

[ASARJMan]

What would our costs be if we got what we were asking for? My guess is quite a bit higher. Actually we are getting more 50 seaters. We gain 50 seaters and lose 70 seaters.

Typical management response, dance around (what if what if) and don't answer the hard question by changing the subject, or ask a question using a supposal!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[ASARJMan]

Didn't the GECAS deal include the converted order of 90 seaters that were ASA orders? Jerry won't transfer 50 seaters to ASA because that would reward ALPA. He doesn't want ALPA at Skywest.

Jerry tell ya that ASADrivel? ASA never had 900s ordered either, or did Jerry tell you ASA did? Keep dodging the question with asine answers you dork!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[ASARJMan]

Why not match their cost then? Who cares about what the rate is if we don't have them anymore? I think the lower our 70 seat cost, the less likelyhood they will transfer them. Now answer why you think getting a huge payraise on the 70 will prevent them from being transferred?

Man oh man, you are an ignorant POS management puke ASADrivel! You're so "all-knowing" why can't you give us a rational answer as to why Jerry won't transfer the 200s to ASA when we're cheaper on them! Surprised you're here this afternoon though. Thought you'd be out carrying BL's golf bag for him and bragging how you put down those mean ALPA people!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[FmrFreightDog]

So true. I haven't seen C.T. post word one on the ALPA boards. What say you C.T. (ps. C.T. is NOT King Tutt). Why won't you post your feelings in the clear blue. Afraid of the crew lounge backlash? I saw you in there the other day, so don't give me any of your, "I don't go into the crew lounge" BS........

P.S. I keep calling your weak ass out, and you keep refusing to respond. A simple, flimsy, "I'm not the guy you're thinking of" would suffice.. Amazing. Too weak to even deny who you are.....

Still waiting, by the way.

 

[Captain X]

"koolaid" comes from that Jamestown guy in S. America. Kinda like following each other off a cliff.

Jamestown, Jonestown.....

http://www.cnn.com/US/9811/18/jonestown.anniv.01/

Yum, Grape Guyana Punch!!! With a little touch of cyanide.:beer:

 

[No Delay]

I can't believe you guys give ASADriver the time of day. Everytime you guys ask him a question or respond to his post...it just gives him another chance to sing praises to ASA management and it makes him believe people are actually listening to him.

 

[79%N1]

No comment.......I'm apparantly not permitted to type my opinion on matters affecting me or my company without being told I should go elsewhere to work. Nevermind maybe trying to make positve changes or share my view. Continue, please..............

 

[MarineGrunt]

No comment.......I'm apparantly not permitted to type my opinion on matters affecting me or my company without being told I should go elsewhere to work. Nevermind maybe trying to make positve changes or share my view. Continue, please..............

Are you talking?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Didn't the GECAS deal include the converted order of 90 seaters that were ASA orders? Jerry won't transfer 50 seaters to ASA because that would reward ALPA. He doesn't want ALPA at Skywest.

Hmm. Since you're clearly a GO insider, you would know better than me. I'll take your word for that.

So what you've just admitted is that Atkin and co. are making finiancial business decisions that will hurt the company's bottom line, based on spite toward a union? As a Skywest stockholder, I should make a complaint to the Skywest BOD and the SEC for malfeasance on the part of the corporate officers. The NMB should find that interesting too. Thanks for the tip off!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Why not match their cost then? Who cares about what the rate is if we don't have them anymore? I think the lower our 70 seat cost, the less likelyhood they will transfer them. Now answer why you think getting a huge payraise on the 70 will prevent them from being transferred?

Answer tha d@mn question! Why do you believe Atkin will not continue to transfer assets, even if we CONTINUE to be cheaper in operating costs?

Even if we "match" Skywest's "cost" (how do you match COST, btw? sounds like that'll take more than pilot pay cuts) Skywest will just lower theirs. They are a moving target. You already admitted that Atkin is acting in spite of the union... why will he stop transfering assets? You already admitted that he views giving us Skywest -200 as "rewarding the union" even though it would be a good business practice, since we're much cheaper. Why would that stop if we're cheaper on the -700? IT WOULDN'T! YOU ADMITTED THAT IN THE ABOVE POST ABOUT THE 50 SEATERS! Thanks for making my case for me ASAdriver!

Oh, BTW, I never said we should get a "huge payraise on the 70". I would be perfectly happy with current book plus COLA on the 70. I would be perfectly happy with Skywest current book plus COLA on the 50.

 

[scott hall]

Preach on, ASADriver. You seem to be one of the only people on this board with any sense.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Next time y'all see Scott Hall in the crew lounge ask him if he wrote that letter himself.

When he says yes, then ask him why an identical letter went out to the flight attendants with a different signature on it.

Watch him squirm.

Then ask him if he's really in charge of anything or just a rubber stamp for his superiors in St George.

Then ask him why we are downgrading pilots, only to resume hiring in 4 months and how much that will cost ASA in actual dollars to retrain everyone for 4 months.

Watch him look at his watch and say it's time to go... important meeting.

 

[CFIT]

Jerry tell ya that ASADrivel? ASA never had 900s ordered either, or did Jerry tell you ASA did? Keep dodging the question with asine answers you dork!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

Yes he did, I was in one of the two that were on the ramp at Mirabel. They are now at SkyWest and have SK painted over the old letters. The other thing that is interesting is that this was before Delta's TA was voted on.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Yes he did, I was in one of the two that were on the ramp at Mirabel. They are now at SkyWest and have SK painted over the old letters. The other thing that is interesting is that this was before Delta's TA was voted on.

That's funny, I'm not aware of any U.S. airline that fly into Mirabel. Most fly into Dorval, now Trudeau. Oh, and the Bombardier factory is in Dorval, not Mirabel.

So are you sure about all that?

 

[CFIT]

That's funny, I'm not aware of any U.S. airline that fly into Mirabel. Most fly into Dorval, now Trudeau. Oh, and the Bombardier factory is in Dorval, not Mirabel.

So are you sure about all that?

The 700 plant is, but I thought you knew everything. The 200 is/was made at Dorval. Mirabel is where the "Terminal" with Tom Hanks was made.

 

[John Pennekamp]

The 700 plant is, but I thought you knew everything. The 200 is/was made at Dorval. Mirabel is where the "Terminal" with Tom Hanks was made.

So tell us, what airline do you fly for (if any)? What brought you to Mirabel? Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[ASADriver]

Hmm. Since you're clearly a GO insider, you would know better than me. I'll take your word for that.

So what you've just admitted is that Atkin and co. are making finiancial business decisions that will hurt the company's bottom line, based on spite toward a union? As a Skywest stockholder, I should make a complaint to the Skywest BOD and the SEC for malfeasance on the part of the corporate officers. The NMB should find that interesting too. Thanks for the tip off!

Sorry, not a GO insider. I got that information from Fins before he retired from FI. I don't have time to look up the post, but he said the 90s were converted 50 seat orders from ASA. I'll see if I can't find the info. he posted.

Also looks like the ASA MEC is now admitting that the 90 seaters were diverted to Skywest. This is yet another change in the MECs position. Just last week, I had an ALPA rep. tell me that the 90s were never coming to ASA. Now the ASA MEC sends me an email telling me that the 90 seaters were diverted to Skywest.

From the most recent ALPA email:

1. A Personal Message from MEC Vice Chairman Tom Zerbarini

Your MEC hears you, all of you! We know that your aggravation level is
immense. The recent National Mediation Board (NMB) re-recess and
management's intransigence in these negotiations have us all frustrated
beyond measure. We also know that management is out there spinning the facts
and blaming the union for the current inactivity.

Let me make this very clear; this MEC is in touch with the needs you, the
ASA pilot, communicated. We have tasked the Contract Negotiating Team (CNC)
to obtain a contract that's fair for our pilots and that ASA and SkyWest,
Inc. can afford. The CNC is making every reasonable effort to reach a deal.
Despite this, our management will not properly engage us and is clearly not
making efforts to reach a deal. The miniscule moves offered from the other
side of the bargaining table are insulting and ludicrous. We have stated
numerous times, and even indicated in our previous two passes, that we are
ready to move on a number of issues. We just need to see the same level of
commitment from the company.

So what are we asking for? Let's put it this way - most of our goals are
considered industry standard and/or a benefit already in place for SkyWest
pilots. We are simply trying to catch up to everyone else.

So what does management want to do instead of negotiate? They want to bust
this union, and bust the organizing drive at SkyWest. Consequently,
management is transferring ASA assets to SkyWest and closing our base in
SLC. In essence, they are transferring jobs to non-union employees.

Management has dangled the CRJ-900 carrot to coax us into lowering our goals
at the bargaining table. They want us to buy these airplanes with contract
terms. Since we did not immediately give in and accept a concessionary
contract, management is now diverting deliveries of new equipment (see
abracadabra, June 9th, 2006, The Connection Newsletter) to SkyWest, in
essence, to punish the ASA pilots.

While the ASA pilots are being squeezed, management is growing SkyWest like
crazy. They are using this growth like a double-edged sword: Squeeze the ASA
pilots to accept a substandard contract and, at the same time, grow SkyWest
to try to squash the union drive there.

Simply put, they are infuriating the ASA pilots and trying to appease the
SkyWest pilots. Management is simply trying to apply outside pressure while
we are in Section 6 Negotiations - is this legal? Some say no and other say
yes, but no matter how you look at it, it's nothing short of union busting!

Let me say something about the SkyWest pilots. As you can imagine many
SkyWest pilots are tickled about the idea of a quick upgrade and better
schedules with this sudden burst of massive growth. There are also many
pilots that are angry that they are being forced to fly a 70- and now the
90-seater for 50-seat pay rates.

As a non-union carrier SkyWest pilots are "at will" employees, have no
contract, have no grievance process, have no safety committee, do not have
legal help or advice, and the list goes on. The thing they the most now
is the fact that they are being used as a tool and an apparent attempt to
break the ASA pilots. They are also afraid that if we cave on our priorities
and accept a substandard contract, we will be used as a tool against them.
Unless we stop the madness now, the two pilot groups will be whipsawed
against one-another forever.

So what are we doing about all of this? I'm glad you asked.

First, this MEC is in contact with all the DCI carriers to coordinate our
efforts and resources so that we can be sure that our bargaining goals
compliment and do not hinder each other. Second, during our last MEC
meeting we developed a strategy that involves ALPA president Duane Woerth.
We spoke with Duane during the recent ALPA Executive Board meeting and
expect to hear back from him this week about the ability to execute this
effort.

As stated previously, although our negotiations may be recessed, the ASA MEC
and its committee structure are actively pursuing ways to jumpstart this
process and to negotiate the contract you deserve. With time and patience,
we will get there together. Thanks for doing your part!

Tom