New Cool Aid...drink up!!

[frqtflyer]

I mean seriously this contract negotiation shouldn't be drug out any longer that it already has. Can anyone honestly tell me what incentive our MEC has in settling this contract anytime soon? The reps sitting at the table get paid an enormous amount of money in comparison to what they would be making if they were flying the line, so tell me why would they want to give up what they make in salary while they are sitting at the table "negotiating" as they call it? I can't think of one....

 

[ASARJMan]

Many senior pilots at ASA are way beyond many of the issues that affect junior pilots and will sell them out to wrap up the contract and have security, because they have no spine and no other prospects. I'll vote no on a TA even if it means no more ASA. I certainly won't vote yes to protect the senior people on this board

No one is trying to tell you how to vote. But, the senior people here (I am one) are not the majority! Not sure but the overwhelming majority have been here something like 5-6 years.

Last contract, instead of the senior people selling out the junior, ASA ALPA fought for FO pay to come up to 60% of Capt's pay, which is industry standard. So instead of giving ourselves a bigger raise, we senior people gave up some to bring the FO pay up. Something to think about.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[redflyer65]

This is the same type of stuff the Pinnacle is trying on us. They want a vote on their 'full' proposal instead of section by section. I guess they are reading from the same playbook, or there might be a regional airline hotline. I say negotiate section by section or nothing. You don't get to see my full hand until the end of the game.

 

[ASARJMan]

The reps sitting at the table get paid an enormous amount of money in comparison to what they would be making if they were flying the line, so tell me why would they want to give up what they make in salary while they are sitting at the table "negotiating" as they call it? I can't think of one....

The reps at the table are paid what they would make on the line. They actually could make more flying the line if they picked up trips, etc. The reps are not stalling progression of this contract, management is. The reps cannot negotiate if the company doesn't make an offer that comes off what they've already put out. Both sides have to give a little, and it's the company's turn to do so.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[av8er2]

Blahhh, blahh....... What ever!

 

[Palerider957]

ASA pilots have not forced management to negotiate in good faith. The power lies in the hands of the line pilots, not the negotiators.

Don't blame ALPA, don't even blame management (who's job is to stall)--blame every pilot who isn't forcing the company to WANT you to be happy. This because you have stopped calling for catering, cleaning, fuel, maint, boarding, lav, potable, push crews, etc., etc. etc.

You have the power, you just don't have the unity.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

If I'm a "management puke", then you are an ALPA "puke". You seem to believe everything ALPA says. That is stupid. ALPA has an agenda as does management. PBS is coming one way or the other. It is the wave of the future. Lets take it, and settle this, and move on. Transferring our jobs to non-union Skywest isn't going to help anyone.

You keep repeating yourself ad nauseum... So, since you've got all the answers what do you claim to be "ALPA's agenda"????

 

["GO AROUND"]

PBS can't be the only item that the negotiator didn't like about the deal. It would have to be allot more than that for him to say that both sides are still too far apart. The big proble here is that ALPA has cut off all communications with the company w/o the negotiator present. Why would they do this? Even if you don't like what the other side is saying you must keep the lane of communications open to get this done. What is the union doing now? Sitting by the phone for the mediator to call. Haven't seen one of those ASAMEC update e-mails in awhile now.

The spin to get this contract done is so deep from both sides of the isle I had to pull my waders out of the closet. Go Around, call your ALPA buddies and tell them to re-open the lanes of communication.

The lanes of communication are still open. The MEC/CNC are ready to get this done in front of the mediator whenever the company is. Why isn't the company? The CNC/MEC is done giving and not getting anything in return.

The agenda that the MEC/CNC has that some of you say they do is to get a contract TA'd that has a chance to pass a vote by the pilots. The info they have tells them that the majority wouldn't vote for the companies last proposal.

It's funny how the company went from immediatly implimenting a PBS in their proposal before the mediator got involved. Then when the mediator was involved it became 18 mnths to get it done, but if we don't they take away Perf. plus. Hmmm, wonder why that is? Cause they knew the mediator would have gone balistic about them trying to throw section 13 in the trash after it's been TA'd.

Not to mention that our perf. plus doesn't even equal SKW's. Why not base ours on our gross pay too? We not good enough?

Where's the SCOPE protection in section 1? Something that would not cost the company anything except making a commitment to the pilots of ASA. They are not willing to do that so why should we make a commitment to them?

Retro Pay? Signing bonus? Call it whatever you want, I still hear a huge majority of pilots that won't pass a contract without something. The company won't even address it.

Jerry knew exactly what he was buying from DAL and 3 years of stalled, pissed off pilots was a huge part of it. If he didn't then he is not as good a businessman as I thought.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I don't care what happened in the past. We can't live in the past, we need to work towards the future. Both sides have made mistakes up until this point. There isn't anything "funny" about this. Skywest has PBS. Delta has PBS. CMR has PBS. Why is ASA ALPA so opposed to PBS. Almost every other carrier has PBS.

PBS bnefits the company, not the majority of pilots!

 

[Tomct]

:uzi:This guys needs to TRULY "DIE A SLOW DEATH!!!" What an @SSCLOWN! Hey Brian....BLOW ME!!!!!!!

 

[Tomct]

ALPA negotiators said they were opposed in the ASA crew lounge. In fact they said the rest wasn't that bad, but PBS is what stopped. Seems pretty short sighted to me.

Well @ssdriver, the reason the Union is opposed to PBS is because it would wipe out the last 3 years of negotiations for section 13. The company was asked on MANY occasions IF they were going with PBS and their answer was NO. Yeah...that would be smart! Piss away the last 3 years of section 13! YGTBSM!!!!

 

[No Delay]

ASA pilots have not forced management to negotiate in good faith. The power lies in the hands of the line pilots, not the negotiators.

Don't blame ALPA, don't even blame management (who's job is to stall)--blame every pilot who isn't forcing the company to WANT you to be happy. This because you have stopped calling for catering, cleaning, fuel, maint, boarding, lav, potable, push crews, etc., etc. etc.

You have the power, you just don't have the unity.

I thought this needed to be posted again.

Why do so few pilots get this?

Let the CNC do the negotiating. WE (the pilots) need to bring the company to the table!

 

[701EV]

I don't want PBS!

701EV

 

[Bizjet]

If I'm a "management puke", then you are an ALPA "puke". You seem to believe everything ALPA says. That is stupid. ALPA has an agenda as does management. PBS is coming one way or the other. It is the wave of the future. Lets take it, and settle this, and move on. Transferring our jobs to non-union Skywest isn't going to help anyone.

You couldn't possible be as ignorant as you appear. I think you are nothing but a flame baiter. If you don't want a raise and want to take PBS that the company has already said they didn't want for the last 4 years then go over to one of the many airlines that has PBS and a contract that sucks. For the rest of us that will fight to make the place a descent job we will continue to push the union to do what the majority wants not the few like yourself. Go douch and get those apps ready. It appears that your 737 rating has done nothing to make you more marketable to other carriers. If you interview and tell them that you just want to work at an airline that has no union and the pay and benefits will remain dormant for the next 10 years they will also know that you are a retard. No one wants a retard on their payroll. You have been told by many on this board that ALPA represents the majority opinion based on pilot surveys and you continue to demand that you and a handful of simpletons should be allowed to control the futures of the majority. Your attitude would not even work at a non union carrier. No one in management actually expects us to sign a substandard contract. They are just trying to get our pay and benefits down so there is money for management bonuses.

Why don't you post on the ALPA board so every pilot at ASA knows who you are and your expections? The pilots would eat your lunch because they would know that you are the guy that thinks his demands should be heard and that you place youself above all others. You parents did a shi!!y job of raising you. I hope you rot in hell. You will try to take that over as well. Hey devil turn up the heat I'm cold. I don't care what everyone else likes I like it hot and miserable.

 

[Bizjet]

"koolaid" comes from that Jamestown guy in S. America. Kinda like following eachother off a cliff. That IS coming from both sides, not just a company term...

It was Jonestown named after the kook Jim Jones. He was like management and his followers were like ASADRIVER.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Why don't you post on the ALPA board so every pilot at ASA knows who you are and your expections?

So true. I haven't seen C.T. post word one on the ALPA boards. What say you C.T. (ps. C.T. is NOT King Tutt). Why won't you post your feelings in the clear blue. Afraid of the crew lounge backlash? I saw you in there the other day, so don't give me any of your, "I don't go into the crew lounge" BS........

P.S. I keep calling your weak ass out, and you keep refusing to respond. A simple, flimsy, "I'm not the guy you're thinking of" would suffice.. Amazing. Too weak to even deny who you are.....

 

[Bizjet]

PBS can't be the only item that the negotiator didn't like about the deal. It would have to be allot more than that for him to say that both sides are still too far apart. The big proble here is that ALPA has cut off all communications with the company w/o the negotiator present. Why would they do this? Even if you don't like what the other side is saying you must keep the lane of communications open to get this done. What is the union doing now? Sitting by the phone for the mediator to call. Haven't seen one of those ASAMEC update e-mails in awhile now.

The spin to get this contract done is so deep from both sides of the isle I had to pull my waders out of the closet. Go Around, call your ALPA buddies and tell them to re-open the lanes of communication.

We (ALPA) filed for mediation. The union screwed up when they agreed to sit down with the company without a mediator. This was a delay tactic used by the company. They are now going to continue to say ALPA closed the door on talks. The dang door should have never been opened. Now you and a few others can't see past the company's BS and are thinking that talks with the company without a mediator will actually lead to a contract. You are a fool if you actually believe this. This company is laughing their a$$es off at pilots that actually believe their garbage. Sit back and relax. Our company wants us to sign a long term substandard contract as soon as possible because the profits are increasing and even the weak a$$ pilots wanting to get it done will soon be silenced. Brian said that our current cost could not possibly support future growth. That means he wants to get out of our current contract and get something less that want we presently have. If you are so quick to cave because you need a raise or growth you need to get a part time job or control you expenses until this contract is finally completed. The company uses this board as a guage to see if their BS is sticking. They don't understand that a very small percentage post here and the majority is still solid on obtaining a fair contact that ASA can afford but that they need to rape us to keep their management bonuses in place. I'm sorry but the majority of our pilots have spoken and you will just have to wait until the contract is settled and we get a new agreement for the majority. When that happens you will be claiming that you were a hardliner and held the line. If we should ever sign a bad agreement you will likely claim that you voted NO. It has happen before and will happen again because no airline pilot group is free from a small vocal minority of weak a$$es!!

 

[Bizjet]

I believe the company offer allowed a year and a half to negotiate the PBS section - didn't it?

Comair gave back for growth and what did it get them? TRY NOTHING BUT MORE CONCESSIONS and NO GROWTH. Want to trust management--Call a Comair pilot and ask then how it worked out for them.

Comair also has PBS and it took them many years of negotiations to get an agreement. They are still not happy with the vendor that was selected for the PBS. ASA has already said that the Delta vendor software is too expensive. That means we negotiate for 18 months and if we still have not reached and agreement they can force us to take their chosen vendor. I know that you are not very bright and most of this has sailed over your head but ask BL, SH, or CT if this is not their plan to force a cost savings PBS on the pilots whether it is acceptable or not.

You claim not to believe ALPA or Management. Why are all your post in support of management and ANTI ALPA?

 

[atrdriver]

I mean seriously this contract negotiation shouldn't be drug out any longer that it already has. Can anyone honestly tell me what incentive our MEC has in settling this contract anytime soon? The reps sitting at the table get paid an enormous amount of money in comparison to what they would be making if they were flying the line, so tell me why would they want to give up what they make in salary while they are sitting at the table "negotiating" as they call it? I can't think of one....

You are truely an idiot if you believe that they make more than they could flying the line. They get paid by ALPA the amount of hours that they would be able to hold if they were able to bid. They are facing off against what is probably the most frustrating situation at his airline. I would rather sit 5 hours waiting to park than sit across from management for 5 minutes. Maybe you need to thank one of these guys next time you run into one.

 

["GO AROUND"]

ALPA negotiators said they were opposed in the ASA crew lounge. In fact they said the rest wasn't that bad, but PBS is what stopped. Seems pretty short sighted to me.

You're talking about the meeting before the mediator came back to assess the gap.

The reason they walked away from that one is cause PBS was instant implimentation not the 18 mnth tied to perf plus.

Why tie it to Perf plus? Why not stay with what both sides had agreed to before when they said they would do it later with a side letter? They are trying to force PBS on us on their terms after they said multiple times they didn't want it now.