New Contract

[Occam's Razor]

Razor, thank you for your last post. We are exploring any and all options at this point.

I believe the rep has already been replaced.

Is that normally done by an election process or is someone appointed?

Can be both. In extreme cases, the TWU President has the authority to place a Local into Receivership. That's a legal action that is rarely taken. If that were to happen, new "reps" (trustee(s), actually) would operate the Local until new elections could be held.

The Constitution & By Laws of the TWU may allow for appointment of interim rep(s). That should be in the copy you have. If so, they serve either the remainder of the original term...or until new reps can be elected.

Loss of elected reps by any union ultimately triggers new elections. The key will be how long you must go without elected reps in position.

 

[Lear70]

Jeez, what a mess.

405, I really feel for you guys. It's a shame that PCL treats ALL of their employees the same way: as disposable liabilities.

 

[ShutupandFly]

Jeez, what a mess.

405, I really feel for you guys. It's a shame that PCL treats ALL of their employees the same way: as disposable liabilities.

The shame is that PCL treated the dispatcers better than average before the union got it's claws into us. This is the Third Airline I have worked for and by far the best working conditions and pay ( at the time I was hired ) of all three. One of them was a union shop. I know the PCL pilots are having there issues with the company but as far as the dispatch office is concerned the issue is with the union. I work with a great bunch of people that really do want to see us do well including pilots, if not for the companys sake than for the sake of our passengers or just doing a job we want to be doing. In this dispatch office it's the union that is causing the problems, not 9E.

 

[Lear70]

The shame is that PCL treated the dispatcers better than average before the union got it's claws into us. This is the Third Airline I have worked for and by far the best working conditions and pay ( at the time I was hired ) of all three. One of them was a union shop. I know the PCL pilots are having there issues with the company but as far as the dispatch office is concerned the issue is with the union. I work with a great bunch of people that really do want to see us do well including pilots, if not for the companys sake than for the sake of our passengers or just doing a job we want to be doing. In this dispatch office it's the union that is causing the problems, not 9E.

I don't know how long you've been there, or where you came from before, but the FACT is that the Dispatchers at PCL have been undermanned and overworked since at least 2002.

I do believe that is long before the union "got its hooks into you".

A union and its contract is only as good as its membership. You guys had to ratify it; if it wasn't any good, should have sent it back.

Lastly, if management was so great, they could decide to give better QOL than what the contract states or agree to give you guys a better contract NOW versus waiting for your current one to come up on its new ammendable date. That's perfectly within the scope of the RLA.

Sorry, I know management at PCL. Blaming the union for something management does is simply ludicrous.

 

[ShutupandFly]

I don't know how long you've been there, or where you came from before, but the FACT is that the Dispatchers at PCL have been undermanned and overworked since at least 2002.

I do believe that is long before the union "got its hooks into you".

A union and its contract is only as good as its membership. You guys had to ratify it; if it wasn't any good, should have sent it back.

Lastly, if management was so great, they could decide to give better QOL than what the contract states or agree to give you guys a better contract NOW versus waiting for your current one to come up on its new ammendable date. That's perfectly within the scope of the RLA.

Sorry, I know management at PCL. Blaming the union for something management does is simply ludicrous.

I was hired before the union was voted in, and the new contract was not ratified. You will have to tell me what the company did that I'm blaming the union for. I was very happy with the pay and benifits I had before the union. If not I would have not accepeted the job.

 

[ShutupandFly]

I don't know how long you've been there, or where you came from before, but the FACT is that the Dispatchers at PCL have been undermanned and overworked since at least 2002.

Forgot to add, the last airline I worked at dispatchers did almost twice as many flights, no acars so we had to chase down time, and order crew meals. Few 9E dispatchers have had to handle a work load like that and not at 9E

 

[Lear70]

I was hired before the union was voted in, and the new contract was not ratified. You will have to tell me what the company did that I'm blaming the union for. I was very happy with the pay and benifits I had before the union. If not I would have not accepeted the job.

Then why did your colleagues ratify the agreement?

If it was a pay and benefits CUT, why the heck did the majority of your Dispatchers vote Yes?

Sounds like there's more to the story...

Forgot to add, the last airline I worked at dispatchers did almost twice as many flights, no acars so we had to chase down time, and order crew meals. Few 9E dispatchers have had to handle a work load like that and not at 9E.

I'd like to know where that was and when? If you're talking back during the 80's or early 90's, then sure.

It was easier on Dispatchers WITHOUT ACARS from a dispatcher work load standpoint unless WorldFlight died or something else went wrong. I did that as well here for 3 years before we went live with ACARS.

Double the amount of releases was probably a lot easier process without having constant SELCAL popping up on your computer interrupting you.

Different world, which is what it sounds like when you mention "crew meals"; those have been gone at every major carrier since the early 90's (and no Regional that I know of EVER had them) except for fractional operations which, again, don't require as much input from the Dispatcher as 121 ops.

Been there, done that for a few years at Flexjet where all we got was the Jepp paperwork (hardly ever even talked to your dispatcher) and did everything else ourselves.

According to the MEM FSDO, PCL Dispatchers, back in late 2005, were dispatching and tracking more aircraft than ANY other Part 121 operation in the U.S. Maybe that's changed (I hope so).

That was our POI's claim, not anything from the Union, Dispatchers, or Pilots, after a couple of pilots filed NASA forms and formal complaints with the FAA Regional Office in ATL trying to fix the dangerous practice of too few dispatchers to accurately track all their flights.

My favorite is having to divert because of a line of severe weather, getting nothing back from the Dispatcher via ACARS, the DTW repeater, or San Francisco Radio because he was covered up with all the other diverts, declaring the emergency, and going wherever the hell I thought was most suitable, then trying for 4 hours to get anyone on the phone, saying screw it and checking ourselves into a hotel and canceling the flight on the CA's authority when you're sitting on 14 hours of duty and no one's answering the phone.

If that happens, you know there's a problem, and it isn't the individual dispatchers who are, more often than not, perfectly capable of handling the situation if they weren't understaffed.

Long story short (too late): understaffing is management trying to cut costs.

Piss-poor pay and benefits is management trying to cut costs and the labor group LETTING them BY RATIFYING THE AGREEMENT.

No one to blame but management and the membership who agreed to the T.A. I'm sure you didn't sign it, but the majority of your coworkers did (otherwise it wouldn't exist and you'd have gone back to the negotiating table).

You can blame the "union" all you want, but they couldn't do it without THE MAJORITY OF PCL DISPATCHERS VOTING YES!

That's the RLA for you, and there's no other way to cut it.

 

[405]

Hey Lear, I may be reading your post incorrectly (I'm kind of fried after 10 hours at work and sick baby duty), but we did NOT ratify the contract that they put on the table last month. Just wanted to clarify that.

And just to let you know, the number of releases I do where I sit has now INCREASED (I'm back up to 65 a day) in the last month. Also remember that we're doing CLC now, too.

Wait until the thunderstorms start firing up this Spring. Things are gonna get really interesting in this office.

 

[Lear70]

Hey Lear, I may be reading your post incorrectly (I'm kind of fried after 10 hours at work and sick baby duty), but we did NOT ratify the contract that they put on the table last month. Just wanted to clarify that.

Oh, that DOES clarify things a bit, thanks. I must have misunderstood ShutUpandFly, thought he said he was ALREADY making less pay and benefits under the new contract, not that he "WOULD" be "IF" it was ratified.

That's simple then. Just vote NO, and have a nice powow with your MEC and Negotiating Committee and lay out YOUR concerns and let the other members lay theirs out as well. If the MEC and NC seem not to share your beliefs, recall the crap out of them.

THAT'S WHY THE RECALL PROCESS EXISTS!

The MEC leaders and NC are here to serve YOU, the membership. If they are presenting something that is sub-standard and a cut in pay, benefits, and/or Quality Of Life, then they either

a.) Don't understand what the membership (YOU) want from your contract because they haven't done their homework via Wilson Polling or some other polling source.

b.) Don't understand the negotiating process and are ineffective as negotiators.

c.) Are pursuing their own agenda in contract negotiations.

A MEC should never bring a T.A. to the group that is less than expected by the MAJORITY of the group unless the MEC leaders believe the company will go out of business because they can't afford the T.A. Otherwise, you keep negotiating.

And just to let you know, the number of releases I do where I sit has now INCREASED (I'm back up to 65 a day) in the last month. Also remember that we're doing CLC now, too.

That really sucks, buddy... Hate to hear you're getting blasted so hard. Stick at the contract thing. Remember, it's like buying a used car - you never take the first price they offer, even at those "fixed price" places.

There's no harm to sending a T.A. back with a resounding "NO" vote, and saying you want better than current book, and a cap on your duties in the interest of "safety".

I personally hope you have a media spokesperson who can spin it towards safety concerns when you reject the T.A. Usually gets the media's attention and, thereby, the Company's, without coming right out and saying bad things (gotta love inuendo).

Wait until the thunderstorms start firing up this Spring. Things are gonna get really interesting in this office.

Again? Bummer...

 

[ShutupandFly]

Then why did your colleagues ratify the agreement?

If it was a pay and benefits CUT, why the heck did the majority of your Dispatchers vote Yes?

They didn't.

I'd like to know where that was and when? If you're talking back during the 80's or early 90's, then sure.

Talking 2004-2005

It was easier on Dispatchers WITHOUT ACARS from a dispatcher work load standpoint unless WorldFlight died or something else went wrong. I did that as well here for 3 years before we went live with ACARS.

Double the amount of releases was probably a lot easier process without having constant SELCAL popping up on your computer interrupting you.

We just had the phones ringing of the hook for everything from wx,to left my cell phone on the plane and We want crew meals.

Different world, which is what it sounds like when you mention "crew meals"; those have been gone at every major carrier since the early 90's (and no Regional that I know of EVER had them) except for fractional operations which, again, don't require as much input from the Dispatcher as 121 ops.

Again 2004-2005 121 domestic.

Long story short (too late): understaffing is management trying to cut costs.

Piss-poor pay and benefits is management trying to cut costs and the labor group LETTING them BY RATIFYING THE AGREEMENT.

No one to blame but management and the membership who agreed to the T.A. I'm sure you didn't sign it, but the majority of your coworkers did (otherwise it wouldn't exist and you'd have gone back to the negotiating table).

You can blame the "union" all you want, but they couldn't do it without THE MAJORITY OF PCL DISPATCHERS VOTING YES!

That's the RLA for you, and there's no other way to cut it.

There is no union contract for any dispach office I know of that limits the number of releases or flights under a dispatchers control. If you know of one I would love to see the language and submit it to the union. Fact is the only thing that changed in the office after the union in we haven't gotten raises in a year and a half and no longer get bonuses. Yes I blame the union, they made alot of big claims on what they were going to do so they could (yes) get there claws into us and were not abel to get any of them done.