New bid at CAL

[Skippy]

3-1 ratio of acceptance. book it- too many peple have crappier jobs

 

[pilotgolfer]

3-1 ratio of acceptance. book it- too many peple have crappier jobs

Skippy...I have some friends on the bottom of the CAL list on both 737 and 757. They basically get worked to the bone. I think their work rules would be like a bucket of cold water for the UAL guys that had been around for more than a year or two. Unless they lived near EWR or HOU, I think the acceptance rate will be quite low.

I know there are a lot of people stuck in crappy jobs right now...but being the low man in EWR is a crappy job. Pick your poison, I guess.

 

[densoo]

Skippy...I have some friends on the bottom of the CAL list on both 737 and 757. They basically get worked to the bone. I think their work rules would be like a bucket of cold water for the UAL guys that had been around for more than a year or two. Unless they lived near EWR or HOU, I think the acceptance rate will be quite low.

I know there are a lot of people stuck in crappy jobs right now...but being the low man in EWR is a crappy job. Pick your poison, I guess.

Will being an active pilot on the property be an advantage to being off the property during the SLI process?

 

[catIIIc]

Will being an active pilot on the property be an advantage to being off the property during the SLI process?

Nope, the TPA mentions that nothing changes with regards to the SLI.

 

[davessn763]

Maybe because you need to feed your family.

You can't feed a family and buy medical insurance on CAL first year pay.

 

[UALRATT]

You can't feed a family and buy medical insurance on CAL first year pay.

We all agree with you but this thread is about recalling UA furloughees under the TPA. Did you read that document (TPA) before hitting the Submit Reply button?

 

[skywdriver]

i welcome back any united guys assuming this actually does happen. glad to see some furloughed brothers and sisters getting the chance to come back to work. in addition, i hope they pass along to their union reps how bad it is to actually work under our current contract here at CAL. its one thing to read it, its another to live under it.

 

[100/hour/5y]

To: All Pilots
I’m pleased to announce that we are issuing System Bid 12-08 today, which will allow us to
hire up to 200 furloughed United pilots. We issued System Bid 12-08 based on updated
information regarding the anticipated needs of the 2012 Business Plan. This bid will generate
new-hire vacancies that we will fill in accordance with the Transition and Process Agreement
Part 7-B, in which Continental will hire pilots currently furloughed from the United Airlines
subsidiary.
System Bid 12-08 reflects several items that are important changes to the previous 12-05
System Bid and I encourage you to read about these changes before submitting your bids.
While the 787 delivery dates remain subject to change, we have received a recent update of the
anticipated 787 delivery schedule from Boeing. We will add crews to the 787 to meet this
revised schedule. Training for the 787 will commence as early as November 2011 and initial
training assignments will be primarily available to current 777 qualified pilots. This initial
cadre of pilots will be trained on the 787 and then will return to the 777 until the initial 787
start-up bid month, which is currently planned for May 2012.
As we accept delivery of new 737 aircraft, we are also adding additional 737 flying for the
summer of 2012. Accordingly, we’re adding additional 737 crews to Houston and Newark
This bid also replaces retirements and other attrition in other Base/Equipment/Status’. The
award of this System Bid will be the basis for the 2012 Vacation Awards.
The 787 remains New Equipment for this System Bid award, as defined in the CBA, Section
24, Part 5.J.4. The LAX base is considered a New Base as defined in the CBA, Section 24, Part
5.J.4 and will be for any system bid published prior to Jan 28, 2012.
In accordance with the Transition and Process Agreement Part 7-H, all contractual training
freeze limitations pursuant to Section 24, Part 5.J incurred as a result of System Bid 11-05 or
earlier will not be in effect for this System Bid. Additionally, the Company is waiving the hard
period restrictions in Section 24 and these will not be in effect on this System Bid. However,
should you be scheduled for training/advancement prior to September of 2011 and receive an
award different than that to which you are scheduled, staffing requirements will determine the
necessity of your being trained and/or advanced to your previous award.
You can find information regarding the specifics of System Bid 12-08, including the number of
vacancies, reductions, etc., on the Flight Operations Web Site under Bid Notification

 

[100/hour/5y]

Base Equipment Status Requirements for System Bid 12-08
Projected Active 12-08 12-08
Base/Equip/Status Retirements Pilots * Min Max Vacancies/Displacements
CLE 737 CA - 124 126 126 2 Vacancies
CLE 737 FO - 122 124 124 2 Vacancies
NYC 737 CA 1 296 308 308 12 Vacancies
NYC 737 FO - 281 303 303 22 Vacancies
IAH 737 CA 2 607 651 651 44 Vacancies
IAH 737 FO - 582 634 634 52 Vacancies
GUM 737 CA - 67 65 67 -
GUM 737 FO - 64 64 64 -
LAX 737 CA - 61 61 61 -
LAX 737 FO - 59 59 59 -
737 CA Total 3 1,155 1,211 1,213 58 Vacancies
737 FO Total - 1,108 1,184 1,184 76 Vacancies
NYC 756 CA 1 332 326 332 -
NYC 756 FO 1 486 482 486 -
IAH 756 CA 1 178 175 178 -
IAH 756 FO - 245 241 245 -
756 CA Total 2 510 501 510 -
756 FO Total 1 731 723 731 -
NYC 777 CA 2 133 131 133 -
NYC 777 FO - 328 328 328 -
IAH 777 CA 1 46 44 46 -
IAH 777 FO - 88 88 88 -
777 CA Total 3 179 175 179 -
777 FO Total - 416 416 416 -
IAH 787 CA - 17 38 38 21 Vacancies
IAH 787 FO - 33 79 79 46 Vacancies
787 CA Total - 17 38 38 21 Vacancies
787 FO Total - 33 79 79 46 Vacancies
System CA Total 8 1,861 1,925 1,940 79 Vacancies
System FO Total 1 2,288 2,402 2,410 122 Vacancies
System All Total 9 4,149 4,327 4,350 201 Vacancies

 

[Phrogs4ever]

If a United furloughee really wants to sit reserve with our rules, more power to'em. I expect some off the street hiring might be in order to fill 200 seats.

 

[Skippy]

it will be 3-1 acceptance, no "off the street " hiring- im telling you - TOO MANY PEOPLE HAVE CRAPPIER JOBS- kill go back first chance i get, but at 3-1 it wont happen until 2013. UGH

 

[densoo]

If a United furloughee really wants to sit reserve with our rules, more power to'em. I expect some off the street hiring might be in order to fill 200 seats.

It's back in a seat. That's a good thing.

There really is no way to fully realize how bad reserve is at CAL without doing it. That's why so many pilots AT CAL don't think it's a problem--they never did reserve or haven't done it for a very long time.

This will be a win win. Furloughs get a job. And then they can verify to their UAL buddies what only CAL pilots know that, for line holder or reserve, CAL work rules are insufferable and must be changed in the JCBA.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

This is also a twelve month bid. If it were another eighteen month bid it would start to reflect age 65 retirements.

 

[pilotgolfer]

It's back in a seat. That's a good thing.

There really is no way to fully realize how bad reserve is at CAL without doing it. That's why so many pilots AT CAL don't think it's a problem--they never did reserve or haven't done it for a very long time.

This will be a win win. Furloughs get a job. And they can verify to UAL what only CAL pilots know that, for line holder or reserve, CAL work rules are insufferable and must be changed in the JCBA.

This will be interesting to throw 200 United pilots into the reserve fray with crappy workrules. Sick calls will go through the roof a month after the first guy hits IOE.

 

[densoo]

This will be interesting to throw 200 United pilots into the reserve fray with crappy workrules. Sick calls will go through the roof a month after the first guy hits IOE.

Perfect. This could be a clear sign to management that if even long-furloughed and desperate UAL pilots rebel against the work rules greater than the CAL pilots already here do, it could finally be clue to them that there is no way they're going to get CAL work rules on 6000 UAL pilots. Won't happen.

 

[pilotgolfer]

Perfect. This could be a clear sign to management that if even long-furloughed and desperate UAL pilots rebel against the work rules greater than the CAL pilots already here do, it could finally be clue to them that there is no way they're going to get CAL work rules on 6000 UAL pilots. Won't happen.

I don't want to make it sound like the UAL pilots are prima-donnas or trying to be bad a$$es. I'm just saying that of the 1437 furloughed pilots, all but the bottom 300 or so have been furloughed twice. Their tolerance for abuse will be extremely limited. I could even see guys just saying, screw it, I quit...and wait for a recall to United. I have to go back to the agreement and read up to see if there are any repercussions for quitting CAL. These 200 pilots are not going to be on probabation and I don't think threats from schedulers are going to work when they start hearing "NO" for a change.

 

[densoo]

Their tolerance for abuse will be extremely limited. I could even see guys just saying, screw it, I quit...and wait for a recall to United. I have to go back to the agreement and read up to see if there are any repercussions for quitting CAL. These 200 pilots are not going to be on probabation and I don't think threats from schedulers are going to work when they start hearing "NO" for a change.

One can hope. I do think there's going to be a giant you've-got-to-be-kidding me, and then all that you've said above. If it happens I wonder if their sense of how a professional ought to allow themselves to be treated will rub off on CAL pilots. Then management may have new problems to deal with, like the entire CAL group reacting to their own work rules like the UAL MEC/NC is reacting to them now. If that happens, to paraphrase Jaws, they're gonna need a bigger recall.

 

[davessn763]

We all agree with you but this thread is about recalling UA furloughees under the TPA. Did you read that document (TPA) before hitting the Submit Reply button?

I read it after it was approved by the MEC's without membership ratification over a year ago. So I need my memory refreshed.

The UAL pilots will come back with medical insurance and their old pay rates they had on the day they were furloughed. That means the first guy "hired" at CAL could be making $124/hr if he was on the 777/747 at 8 yr pay when he was furloughed even though he will be junior to the last newbies at CAL who are making $31/hr. That's also more than almost all of the FO's at CAL make the exception being year 10,11, 12 wide body FO's which is only a handful of pilots. The junior pilots at CAL got left out in the cold once again, but it was the right thing to do.

I have nothing against "hiring" these guys but it's messed up that they will be no pay raise for the thousands of pilots at CAL senior to them who will now be making less than these "new hires".

 

[densoo]

I have nothing against "hiring" these guys but it's messed up that they will be no pay raise for the thousands of pilots at CAL senior to them who will now be making less than these "new hires".

Maybe it will motivate these "thousands of pilots at CAL senior to them" to realize what can be achieved with a little self respect and unity. Three years in bankruptcy and UAL gets paid more than CAL, not to mention DH in first class, 10 hours rest in the hotel, and 5 hours add pay if crew agrees to reduce rest by just one minute.

 

[bluefin]

Come work where I do, you will go happily to a steady paycheck, benefits. Come on over and see what pilot abuse is all about. One post back said it all, " GOT TO FEED THE FAMILY ", been barely doing it for 2 yrs now, gladly take whats coming, " if only you could walk a mile in my shoes "!