New ALPA Message to USAirways Pilots pt 3

[Guppiedriver]

ODells progression has stagnated....however, as it stands right now, he will enjoy rapid advancement.
A350

Only if he bids an east coast domicile. Unlikely.

 

[Green]

Again, don't have a dog in this fight. However, if a US Air (east, I guess you guys call it) Capt. retires, and another US Air (east) guy upgrades to take his place; now not sure, but exact how can that be considered 'stealing upgrades'. If one of your (AWA/west, whatever) guys retires right now, doesn't an AWA guy upgrade to replace him???

How is it exactly 'stealing'??

Just my $0.02, not to interrupt your current rant.

DA

Because all of our (AWA's) resources are going into the East operation right now. Obviously without the merger Parker would not be spending our money on expanding an east operation. Absent the merger AAA would still be shrinking in a best case scenario. They certainly wouldn't have ordered 30+ widebodies plus 25+ E190's and 60 or so A320's.

It is very difficult to determine what flying belongs to each respective pilot group now that we are one airline. Since the east represents 60% or so of the operation they should be entitled to 60% of the upgrades and fo advancement. However they are trying to get more like 90%+ by weaseling their way out of the Arbitrator's decision. Nic basically gave a relative position award which spreads the upgrades evenly. The East wants it all. They would have never got 190's at mainline when you consider the fact that MDA was formed to fly Emb's and subsequently sold off. Now the east feels entitled to 100% of those positions. It is nothing more than a land grab engineered by the East MEC. They feel that their past abuse justifies holding the west down. Maybe it does I don't know. But it is idiotic to claim they are trying to do what is right.

 

[Fast43]

TWA:


All the hooey about what would have happened to USAir minus the merger is about as relavent as what would have happened to AWA minus the merger.

A350

Part of merger policy requires consideration of what ones career expectations were at the time of the merger announcement (May 2005) After all the testimony at the hearings, your merger committee was not able to convince the Arbitrator that your career was as Rosy as you want to believe. He even stated in his decision that AAA gained much more from this merger than AWA did. It is this fact that your mec can not stomach.

Our Merger Committee and MEC got permission from the Arbitrator to post the Daily transcripts on our website. Your MEC and Merger Committee told our guys that they were nuts for doing so. As a result we were able to read what was actually said and form our own opinions about how things were going. Your Committee told you what they wanted you to hear and nothing more. It actually sounded like "Bag Dad Bob" proclaiming that we have them surrounded out at the Airport and they are trying to Surrender etc etc.

I challenge you to seek out one of your merger guys and ask him personaly why you didn't get to see the transcripts as this was occurring.

Has anyone over there asked your Merger Comm or Mec how it is that if they were so high, mighty and Riteous in their case. Why wasn't it a slam dunk??? as you were told it would be.


Maybe you should do some research and make your own decsion on whether your MEC is leading you or decieving you!!!

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Again, don't have a dog in this fight. However, if a US Air (east, I guess you guys call it) Capt. retires, and another US Air (east) guy upgrades to take his place; now not sure, but exact how can that be considered 'stealing upgrades'. If one of your (AWA/west, whatever) guys retires right now, doesn't an AWA guy upgrade to replace him???

How is it exactly 'stealing'??

Just my $0.02, not to interrupt your current rant.

DA

Because all of our (AWA's) resources are going into the East operation right now. Obviously without the merger Parker would not be spending our money on expanding an east operation. Absent the merger AAA would still be shrinking in a best case scenario. They certainly wouldn't have ordered 30+ widebodies plus 25+ E190's and 60 or so A320's.

It is very difficult to determine what flying belongs to each respective pilot group now that we are one airline. Since the east represents 60% or so of the operation they should be entitled to 60% of the upgrades and fo advancement. However they are trying to get more like 90%+ by weaseling their way out of the Arbitrator's decision. Nic basically gave a relative position award which spreads the upgrades evenly. The East wants it all. They would have never got 190's at mainline when you consider the fact that MDA was formed to fly Emb's and subsequently sold off. Now the east feels entitled to 100% of those positions. It is nothing more than a land grab engineered by the East MEC. They feel that their past abuse justifies holding the west down. Maybe it does I don't know. But it is idiotic to claim they are trying to do what is right.

Again, do Not have a dog in this fight, but do know quite a few US Air (east) pilots.

".....spending our money on expanding the east operation." What expansion?? Other than some additional European flying, there has been NO expansion. In fact, since the merger, the 'capacity' of US Air has declined in viturally every month, with the small increase in int'l being far offset by declines in domestic capacity.

And, there is NO growth in the future plans of the airline

-E190s are replacing 737s. And, the options on future E190s are from converted options for E170s, which U had on the books prior to the merger.

-"60 or so A320s" (which I believe the total narrow-body order is actually a total of about 90 a/c), are ALL replacement aircraft.

-30+ widebodies (actually I think the 'firm' order is only 25), and some may be growth, but some will probably be replacements for the 767s in the future, plus the 757s (all but about 20) are scheduled to go away.

So, there has be NO real "expanding of the east operation." Drunk dumbass dougie does Not know how to 'grow' an airline. And, in all likelihood, all of the a/c (buses) that AWA has on order prior to merger was have been just 'replacement' a/c. And, prior to the merger, US Air staffing was allowed to decline (guys retiring at a rate of 20-30/mth. and not being replaced) well below what was necessary; in my honest opinion, as a deliberate move to reduce costs to 'make the deal.' Hence, the rush to accelerate the recalls, as flights were being cancelled, just to bring staffing levels up to where they should have been. As I believe (as I have studied this industy and business in general for years) that this merger was planned by Lakefield and Parker probably 2yrs before it was actually announced.

So, with NO real growth in the future of US Airways, the only way to 'move up' is through 'attrition.' And, the AWA (west) have their attrition and the US Air (east) have their attrition, but don't see any "stealing" as I stated before.

The sooner that both sides realize that the 'New' US Airways is not really going to 'grow' or go anywhere until that Drunk Dumbass dougie either, leaves, dies, or goes back to jail. Until, of course, the next merger, in which case, he will F#%k, both groups.

Don't you think there are 'a lot' of DL guys out there very happy that they dodged that 'drunk dumbass.' And, I guess a year ago, there were about 450 furloughed DL guys out there on the street, that you guys would have said, 'had NO career expectations' as they were 'furloughed' but most are now sitting in the right seat of a 767 flying int'l.

So, no stealing, as the US Air guys are just taking advantage of 'their attrition,' the same thing that I would do, and the same thing that you would do in their place; and of course, if you say you would do otherwise, you'd be just lying.

Just a thought.

DA

 

[Soulfly]

Fast43 said,

"I challenge you to seek out one of your merger guys and ask him personaly why you didn't get to see the transcripts as this was occurring."

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. PERIOD. JUST LIKE WHEN LOA93 GOT PASSED. DIFFERENT OPPPONENT. SAME RESULT.


A350, how has Dave's career progreasion been slowed, I think you are much smarter than to even ask the question.

Lets recap, all pilots on furlough at usair recalled. Ok, I understand most of that was due to attrition, I get it. How many upgrades have occured? Hundreds I am sure. I think there have been 20 or so on the AWA side.

But contrary to popular belief the AWA side brought it's own attrition to the game. Thats not what pisses me off. Prior to the "NIC decision", all the new aircraft went East, with the caveat we would all share in it when the sides were merged, not your side is seeking to stop that for infinity if possible.

Ok, so lets go back and re-mediate the 757, and E190 deals, since that seems to be ok by your standards.
GMAFB, you guys would tells us to go pound sand before we even walked through the door.

THAT's what pisses me off. And the fact in any other facet of professional life, if you signed a legal doc and then refused to comply with it you would face massive fines and possibly more. FACT.........

 

[weasel_lips]

And there you have it. After all this talk of what's right and the union brotherhood, etc it comes down to the East pilots using underhanded tactics to steal upgrades. You 'lost' fair and square yet refuse to be grownups and play by the rules.

Now you have gone too far with that one. The East pilots are now stealing your upgrades? (Better call the upgrade police!!!!)

Shoot! I better head on over to PHL and see if I can grab one of them upgrades!

I thought none of you guys would even bid out east?

You 'lost' fair and square yet refuse to be grownups and play by the rules.

Are saying you won? If so, what did you win? All the upgrades on the East or something???? So you won them, they are now yours? Sorry, but I don't think it is going to play out ANYTHING like that.

 

[PositiveRate]

It's going to play out as follows....

ALPA national will step in as trustee for the East MEC to finish the contract negotiations. The TA will be presented in early '08 and when each individual East pilot goes home to read over it and vote, they will choose a large payraise and better workrules over a bunch of empty promises from a radical faction of their own (USAPA) - that faction will demand money to further their efforts but be able to return nothing on the investment beyond delaying the inevitable implimentation of the nicolau decision and providing the status quo or worse for years to come.

The contract will pass with some piss poor margin and shall include all sorts of concessionary BS that never would have been there had your leaders not pulled the tantrum on the century - but it will pass.

USAPA will not have the cards to bring a representation vote, but will do anything they can to make us believe they do....oh and how many people sent in $$ with their card? Apparently not nearly enough as the two bit lawyer they hired is working on half pay in hopes of milking you in the future.

In the interim, any work slowdown or action even remotely traced to USAPA will result in immediate and drastic action from the company (ref. the recent sickout debacle). And any continued attempt to force AWA from our CBA will be met with years of lawsuits that doom even the dimmest light of hope the wack jobs that run USAPA might have.

The powers in this (read ALPA national and the company) are done being polite in respecting your grieving process of becoming a LCC minion. Welcome to the back of the bus...get used to it. Your actions have sealed that seat for us all for years to come because you fought the wrong battle. There was a brief moment in time before the list came out where it looked like we could stand together. Apparently, the only reason you chose to stand with us was you full heartedly believed the AWA group would become your furlough fodder.

 

[weasel_lips]

It's going to play out as follows....

The TA will be presented in early '08 and when each individual East pilot goes home to read over it and vote, they will choose a large payraise and better workrules over a bunch of empty promises from a radical faction of their own (USAPA) - that faction will demand money to further their efforts but be able to return nothing on the investment beyond delaying the inevitable implimentation of the nicolau decision and providing the status quo or worse for years to come.

The contract will pass with some piss poor margin and shall include all sorts of concessionary BS that never would have been there had your leaders not pulled the tantrum on the century - but it will pass.

It will pass on YOUR side maybe.

The votes simply are not there on the east side for a TA to pass. Even your (our) own CEO says so. (Watch the Town Hall meetings for yourself)

I am out here in the system. I have yet to speak to one single crew member that will vote yes on a joint contract. Since you need 51% over to here to say yes..... there numbers are not there for it to pass.

It will take more of a raise then management is willing to pay + fences to make anyone change their position.

I think we are looking at a decade of seperate ops, maybe more.

 

[ultrarunner]

I think we are looking at a decade of seperate ops, maybe more.

Ten years???

If U stopped hiring today, would there even be anyone ON the east list???

I bet there wouldn't be. That list is OLD....REALLY OLD!

 

[PositiveRate]

The company won't allow a decade of separate ops in my opinion. You give DP far too much credence on some of his soundbites...Look to the rumored sickout, the company's response and the email from both Jack and John for a reality check on how this will be handled if the sandbox scurmishes don't cease.

The people you fly with can SAY whatever they want now, but when the TA and increases in pay, workrules and retirement contributions are staring them in the face, they will make a decision that's best for their families. It will pass...maybe by just 1%, so prepare yourself. Nicolau will also stand with either union and we will all lose with USAPA at the helm if God forbid we are ever dragged into another merger.

You don't have to believe me...I don't expect you to, but I'm telling you, this is how it's going to happen.

The only winner in this is the company, as they benefit directly from our inabilities to work together. Not only will they feed us scraps, but they will make us fight over them.