New Airtran payrates

[V1rowt8]

Can someone post the new proposed Airtran payrates? Will AT management go for these rates?

 

[V1rowt8]

I heard $88/ hr 2nd yr fo ca top out at $193. Hopefully there will be retro pay. I hope the AT pilots don't have to take this to the next level.

 

[FL717]

Captain
YR DOS DOS +1 DOS+2

1 $155.46 $160.13 $164.93

2 $156.52 $161.22 $166.06

3 $158.08 $162.82 $167.70

4 $159.63 $164.42 $169.35

5 $161.13 $165.97 $170.95

6 $162.75 $167.63 $172.66

7 $164.71 $169.65 $174.74

8 $168.22 $173.27 $178.47

9 $171.89 $177.04 $182.35

10 $176.83 $182.14 $187.60

11 $179.51 $184.89 $190.44

12 $183.31 $188.81 $194.47


First Officer
YR DOS DOS+1 DOS+2

1 $48.53 $49.99 $51.49

2 $76.47 $78.77 $81.13

3 $90.51 $93.23 $96.02

4 $99.39 $102.37 $105.45

5 $106.22 $109.40 $112.69

6 $108.98 $112.25 $115.62

7 $110.94 $114.27 $117.70

8 $112.94 $116.33 $119.82

9 $115.41 $118.87 $122.43

10 $118.94 $122.51 $126.19

11 $120.51 $124.12 $127.85

12 $123.20 $126.89 $130.70

 

[johnsonrod]

Captain
YR DOS DOS +1 DOS+2

1 $155.46 $160.13 $164.93

2 $156.52 $161.22 $166.06

3 $158.08 $162.82 $167.70

4 $159.63 $164.42 $169.35

5 $161.13 $165.97 $170.95

6 $162.75 $167.63 $172.66

7 $164.71 $169.65 $174.74

8 $168.22 $173.27 $178.47

9 $171.89 $177.04 $182.35

10 $176.83 $182.14 $187.60

11 $179.51 $184.89 $190.44

12 $183.31 $188.81 $194.47

First Officer
YR DOS DOS+1 DOS+2

1 $48.53 $49.99 $51.49

2 $76.47 $78.77 $81.13

3 $90.51 $93.23 $96.02

4 $99.39 $102.37 $105.45

5 $106.22 $109.40 $112.69

6 $108.98 $112.25 $115.62

7 $110.94 $114.27 $117.70

8 $112.94 $116.33 $119.82

9 $115.41 $118.87 $122.43

10 $118.94 $122.51 $126.19

11 $120.51 $124.12 $127.85

12 $123.20 $126.89 $130.70

Are these rates good news or bad news from the pilots' perspective? How do these rates compare to expectations? Good news or bad news? If bad news, what were you expecting?

 

[FL717]

Are these rates good news or bad news from the pilots' perspective? How do these rates compare to expectations? Good news or bad news? If bad news, what were you expecting?

I obviously can't speak for 1600+ other Pilots, but I can say that the people I have spoken to are fairly content with these rates. Alot is going to boil down to the contract proposal as a whole.

My opinion is this: I would like to see this industry get back to the rates that UAL and DAL had prior to 9-11. Regardless of what some of our peers think, $230.00 an hour as a Airline 737 Captain is NOT out of line for this Profession.

Unfortunately, with a de-regulated industry, the way things are currently, I see that number as being almost impossible, and unfortunately, unsustainable. It would take a MAJOR change in the industry business dynamic as a whole to even think that any Airline will make that salary work.

With that said.... comparing these rates to current industry top payscales for small narrowbody (i.e SWA, ALA, DAL, AMR), these rates appear to be second only to SWA.

Also... these rates when compared to the 2005 Initial proposal from the NPA rafted by M.B. and S.H., and compared to the failed 2007 TA2, these rates are light years beyond where those numbers were at.

I THANK our MEC for directing our Negotiating Committee to submit these rates, and I am counting on them to stand FIRM on these rates, and I am hoping that my fellow AirTran Pilots stand together to insist that we get these rates.

If AirTran wants to be a top rated Airline, and wants to reward the Executives with Promotions and financial rewards for their work, then I expect NO LESS.

 

[Tomct]

Good Luck guys/gals. That would be a great payscale, I hope you can make it happen.
;-)

 

[likeitis]

For the most part I think they are pretty decent. Only issue I have is I think the FO rates should increase faster to 67% of Captains pay. I think by year 4 they should be there.

 

[gt1900]

Don't plan on those rates. Its called negotiating. Ask high, and settle for less. The question will be how much less. I think those rates are pretty favorable but don't expect them to be the final rates we see. However, I don't think that they should be much less then that, because I don't think much less will pass.

 

[wood pecker]

Has anything regarding scope been mentioned? Is there a loop hole that will allow mgment to cut the rates as soon as fuel goes up 1 penny?

I smell a strike vote in the next few weeks as even the positive goody goody Captains seem pissed. Why? They did their part of saving fuel, not firing up the APU, buying coffee, climbed higher, and saved a ton of money for the company only to be called "special". Meanwhile a new VP gets $340,000.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Don't plan on those rates. Its called negotiating. Ask high, and settle for less. The question will be how much less. I think those rates are pretty favorable but don't expect them to be the final rates we see. However, I don't think that they should be much less then that, because I don't think much less will pass.

Yea i agree those rates will be comimg down. but the question is by how much.

 

[uspilot]

They are lot better than Jetblue Rate's....Hope it stay's the same...

 

[samballs]

mang will give you those rates, you're ALPA now, they will give up all scope for those rates

 

[maxblast72]

mang will give you those rates, you're ALPA now, they will give up all scope for those rates

Considering 2/3 of our current fleet is made up of the 117 seat variety, I don't see many guys interested in relaxing our current scope limit of 70 seats and a limit of 10% of our total ASMs. The other good news is you can't make money with CRJ-200s hauling people to Florida for $79 so I don't see 50 seaters being a major issue. You may see a few 50 seaters on a revenue share deal for thinner MKE routes but I really don't see them doing routes like CAK-FLL, IND-RSW, or PIT-MCO.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Max- Was this in response to a company opener, or was it the first shot across the bow in the compensation negoiations?

 

[maxblast72]

I believe the company is still stuck on pilot CASM neutral. I believe our MEC and ALPA negotiating advisors now feel the have the pilot group behind them, have the NMB close to giving us a release, and are ready to start putting some serious pressure on company. A strike vote will probably send a few normally Airtran passengers in ATL over to the big D. I hope the company puts a serious proposal on the table at the March 15th-17th negotiating session. Next few months are probably going to get interesting.

I believe the MEC is now ready to fight and has fired the first shot across the bow.

 

[aceshigh]

Don't plan on those rates. Its called negotiating. Ask high, and settle for less. The question will be how much less. I think those rates are pretty favorable but don't expect them to be the final rates we see. However, I don't think that they should be much less then that, because I don't think much less will pass.

The day the union sent out the email with these rates, I ran into MKS, newly elected S/T for ATN ALPA. He was on his way to DCA from PBI for S/T training with ALPA National. During the brief conversation, he stated that those rates were Alaska + 3-5%, depending on seat and longevity. He also stated that Alaska +1% is the absolute rock bottom, we will go on strike pay rates that the union will bring to the pilot group in a TA. The truth of that remains to be seen, but I hope it is true and have no reason to not believe MKS.

My apologies to MKS if I misunderstood or have misconstrued his statements in any way.

aceshigh (being led to the picket line by AirTran's "passable" management)

 

[maxblast72]

He also stated that Alaska +1% is the absolute rock bottom, we will go on strike pay rates that the union will bring to the pilot group in a TA.

Don't oversimplify the situation to hourly rates only. Retirement contribution percentage, work rules, scheduling transparency, and scope plus pay rates are going to be big parts of the whole package. We don't need any Section 4 only guys this time around, we had plenty of them for the TA2 vote 3 years ago.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Sounds like this week is the fork in the road.

 

[aceshigh]

Don't oversimplify the situation to hourly rates only. Retirement contribution percentage, work rules, scheduling transparency, and scope plus pay rates are going to be big parts of the whole package. We don't need any Section 4 only guys this time around, we had plenty of them for the TA2 vote 3 years ago.

No oversimplification here. Simply passing along on information from the original conversation with MKS and adding to the thread topic, which was proposed pay rates. The conversation was very brief and dealt only and specifically with those pay rates. No other sections were discussed during this conversation. You need not worry about section 4 tunnel vision here.

 

[maxblast72]

Section 4 tunnel vision comment not pointed at you. You sound alot more informed than a good portion of our guys. The communication blitz coming over the next several weeks from the MEC should solve some of that.

 

[FL717]

Don't oversimplify the situation to hourly rates only. Retirement contribution percentage, work rules, scheduling transparency, and scope plus pay rates are going to be big parts of the whole package. We don't need any Section 4 only guys this time around, we had plenty of them for the TA2 vote 3 years ago.

ABSOLUTELY... I agree 100% with your post.

I didn't address any of your points in my post because the question in this thread was specifically addressing the "payrates".

With that said now, it does NOT matter if we make $500.00 an hour if all our flying is outsourced, and the work rules have you sitting in a hotel room or at an airport and getting paid 3 hours for a weeks worth of time spent, and 2/3 of your salary is paying for your medical benefits. Also.. what about the end of the road when we retire if we have NOTHING in retirement benefits..

Big picture... big picture.... big picture.....

 

[Max Powers]

ABSOLUTELY... I agree 100% with your post.

I didn't address any of your points in my post because the question in this thread was specifically addressing the "payrates".

With that said now, it does NOT matter if we make $500.00 an hour if all our flying is outsourced, and the work rules have you sitting in a hotel room or at an airport and getting paid 3 hours for a weeks worth of time spent, and 2/3 of your salary is paying for your medical benefits. Also.. what about the end of the road when we retire if we have NOTHING in retirement benefits..

Big picture... big picture.... big picture.....

Actually for 500 bucks an hour I might accept all the concession that you propose. As long as we get 70 hour guarantee. Lets see 500 x 70 = 35,000 per month....Not too shabby. TiC

 

[BigMeat]

Actually for 500 bucks an hour I might accept all the concession that you propose. As long as we get 70 hour guarantee. Lets see 500 x 70 = 35,000 per month....Not too shabby. TiC

Sad thing is that figure isnt too far from what they used to pay a decade aga with some slight adjustment to inflation....

 

[Colonel Savage]

120K in 1977 (737 UAL Capt) = 450K today.

70K in 1977 (737 UAL F/O) = 250K today.

"Read 'em and weep," as my old math teacher used to say after handing exams back to the class.