Netjets vs. MidAtlantic

[Dashcaptain]

I have an interview with Netjets soon and should be in a class at MidAtlantic sometime next month. I am just looking for outside opinions for what to do. I have been leaning toward MidAtlantic, but was hoping to hear from some Netjets pilots to hear what they might think.

Thanks in advance

 

[Steve 737]

I have an interview with Netjets soon and should be in a class at MidAtlantic sometime next month. I am just looking for outside opinions for what to do. I have been leaning toward MidAtlantic, but was hoping to hear from some Netjets pilots to hear what they might think.

Thanks in advance

Captain or F/O at Mid-Atlantic ?

 

[Dashcaptain]

It will be an FO position for a while. I have no idea how long either.

 

[DO-82 driver]

NetJets

Dash.....I've been with Netjets now for a little over 5 years. Prior to that I was with a commuter in New England for 7 years. NetJets is not that bad of a place to work. I personally enjoy it but the lifestyle and on-demand work conditions are not for everyone. The pay is outright terrible but I'm sure you are aware that we are into our almost 3rd year on contract negotiations. The contract looks like its going to be rapped up soon...I have my fingers crossed. Because the fractionals have been explosive in the past 5 years NetJets has certainly experienced it fair share of growing pains. There are days when I ask myself ...."what the heck am I doing here?" Then I speak to my buddies with various major and regional airlines and thank my lucky stars I'm here. Things could be better and I'm personally confident that they will get alot better here. I don't know how much you know about the company but if you'de be willing to lay your questions out I'd be happy to answer them to the best of my ability.

 

[AeroBoy]

Hmm...

Hmmm...Working for a startup airline using RJs that is a subsidiary of an ailing major carrier headed for bankrupcty again (the second time in as many years), or a major fractional provider that is doing OK financially and has the financial backing of Warren Buffett? Tough choice there...

 

[wingnutt]

...and has the financial backing of Warren Buffett?

lol, that and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee

 

[DO-82 driver]

Actually Wingnutt its buying us a whole lot more than a cup of coffee.....Warrne Buffet does nothing short term. There is an actual feeling of long term employment here at NetJets, something that many of the boys flying heavy metal don't have right now. We're adding a plane every 2 weeks to the fleet, plan on hiring up to 200 pilots this year and considerably more than that for next year. With a market share of nearly 75%, I'd say that NetJets, under the partial guidance of Mr Buffett, is not an entity to be shrugged off. Just ask the major airlines where some of their business and high end travelers have gone. All the majors are trying to do what we do....I guess imitation is the ulimate form of flattery........

 

[Steve 737]

You may be a captain sooner than you think with the majority of APL pilots passing. APL'ers make $58/hr as captain. That's a pay cut for many of us working other jobs. Probably the only reason a lot of APL pilots go to MAA is the E-170 type for a better shot at Jetblue.

It will be an FO position for a while. I have no idea how long either.

 

[Stickshaker]

No Contest, Netjets hands down !!

 

[Cliff]

If this helps..
I've been with the comapny now over 5 years. I interviewed with the major airlines and was treated like a liar, cheat and just an overall piece of dirt. I even had a Job offer from one.. Then I interviewed with NetJets while I was waiting for a class date, guess what? They threated me with respect and never question my integrity, I got a job offer and took it.. I never looked back!
Has it been all roses? NO! Do they work you hard? Yes! Everyday? No!
Do I love my job? Yes! Could somethings change? Yes!

But one thing won't change, the company will always be in business. So I know that I will always have a job. The Company will always support me and my family when an emergency occurs and I'm on the road. This company has flown guys home in company airplanes when needed and has even flown pilots wives to them when they get sick on the road.. I'm talking about sending one of our jets to the ladies airport and transporting her to her husband because the guy is in the hospital. That's the kind of company NetJets is.

It will only get better.

With the new contract there will be major changes and it will benefit all parties involved.. If you have a chance to get on with NetJets you better jump on it. If you are just looking to build time for a seat with a major airline, you won't like it here.. Why? Because the flying is only 5% of the job...
Besides, the airline paradigm is shifting quickly away from the hub and spoke model into direct flights by low cost providers and when the majors start folding there will be plenty of high time boeing boys and girls looking for work-you can take that to the bank.

Best of luck in your decision

 

[Whitestoneclimb]

Get away from USAirways! FAST!! MidAtlantic is just a dingy attached to the back of the Titanic.

 

[On Your Six]

If Jet Blue is your goal, go to MidAtlantic. If you want to fly Citation Xs to Aspen and Bermuda (from nasty TeterHOLE no less), then select Netjets.

 

[Heavy Set]

Netjets - the contract will get better and they are adding aircraft.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I have an interview with Netjets soon and should be in a class at MidAtlantic sometime next month. I am just looking for outside opinions for what to do. I have been leaning toward MidAtlantic, but was hoping to hear from some Netjets pilots to hear what they might think.

Thanks in advance

Dude,

Charmane called me for a MAA Captain position on Wednesday. She gave me 6 less than 1 weeks notice for the class on the 28th.

My view is that it depends on what you want as an individual. You sound like you are at a W.O. Express carrier now so the risk of unemployment won't increase for you by taking the job at MAA.

1) Do you want to get experience on the EMB-170 and have maybe a better shot at a JB interview? Just an interview. You may still be there when the music stops and the airplanes, not the pilots, go to whatever company buys them. MAA.

Or

2) Do you want to work at a good company that provides a pretty good quality of life and is in the beginning of it's life cycle. NJA.

Granted.. flying at NJA is COMPLETELY different than 121... but many guys and gals don't miss 121 all that much. I don't. I experience 121 flying at the beginning of each tour and at the end of each tour. It's remenissing for me.

If you wanna talk more in depth about the decision I made (pretty self apparant) drop me a PM.

 

[reepicheep]

I agree with previous posters who advise staying away from MidAtlantic. Stay away from anything affiliated with US Airways; too much uncertaintly - CH. 11?, CH. 7?, strong possibililty of more furloughs (and thus 18-year Airways pilots displacing downward into MidAtlantic captain seats), poisonous and negative atmosphere permeates the place.

 

[Flex]

How about both? There is no reason why you can't take the NJA job, but delay your class till later while you play around in the Embraer for a hundred hours. You will lose some seniority at NJA, but honestly, it doesn't matter that much. You are going to be on FO pay for so long, you might be better off waiting till the contract is signed so you can make a better, educated decision. It would be a shame to go to NJA, then see that our pay increase sux and now you've burned your bridge at the other gig, and now your stuck flying someone's dog "peaches" and taking out all the coke products because the passenger brief sheet requires you to make sure they don't have cokes for whatever reason. I'd try to leave both options open. If the contract ends up being a good deal, bail out of US Airways whatever they are calling themselves and come on over to NUTJETS! One thing for sure, you'll eat better over here.

 

[DO-82 driver]

I'd be a little concerned about joining up with NetJets after the contract has been ratified with respect to the Gateway issues. If you get on prior to the ratifiaction you'll be able to effectively live where you want as long as you can get to EWR,MCO, or LAX by 10am. After the signing you might have to live within a prescribed distance to anyone of those airports thus possiby requiring you to move.


Now things haven't been finalized yet and I certainly not saying that things will go that way but it looks like that's the way things are leaning.....
And I also agree with the fine XL driver above in that....we do eat rather well here. Some more advise...get into an exercise routine now, it will help keep the weight off.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I agree with previous posters who advise staying away from MidAtlantic. Stay away from anything affiliated with US Airways; too much uncertaintly - CH. 11?, CH. 7?, strong possibililty of more furloughs (and thus 18-year Airways pilots displacing downward into MidAtlantic captain seats), poisonous and negative atmosphere permeates the place.

It's also important to remember that the U membership ratified LOA 91 which allows GECAS (the lender of 85% of the cash for the EMBs) to place 170s at another carrier other than MAA if US Airways cannot generate money for payments. It also allows GECAS to sell off MAA if US Airways fails to perform.

If you had absolutely nothing else going for you I would say GO FOR IT. Otherwise I would proceed with caution.

 

[jato]

Ins response to telling NetJets to hold off while you try out another operator....won't work. It used to, but not now. Now when they call and offer you a job they offer you one airplane, one class date, take it or leave it. I had a buddy who just got hired here and he was able to put off his class date one month and one month only, and that was only because his wife has a scheduled C-section on the day his first offer started.

My advice, take Netjets as soon as you can. There will always be jobs at regionals and in the next couple of years there will also be jobs at the majors. This might, I repeat might, be your only chance to get on with NetJets. If I were you I would get on now, and then if you don't like it you can spend your time applying somewhere else like JB.

Just my two cents. But don't turn down a class date thinking they will keep delaying it for you.

 

[davis]

Having flown 121 furloughed then at nj for 4 months then back at a 121. Go 121. Nj will ask you to serve food clean the aircraft work 17 days a month while half your bros only work 14 for the same pay. Also, you cannot fly pax legs..that is right you arent worthy according to the mighty customer and the clowns in cmh.
Stay in the 121 side unless you like being asked to serve coffee load bags fly when there arent pax on board work 17 days a month and be treated like a hooker! And to top it off be paid 39k a year as a cpt.

Finally, for all those at nj you guy are long over due a raise.Nobody works as hard as you people. Stick to your guns and dont let those thugs Buffet and Santooly tell you they cannot afford to pay you.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Davis.....Thanks for the well wishes on the contracr. We're all hanging in there.

However, I need to correct you on some of your other comments.
1) the 7&7 schedule is seniority based, right now. It looks like that is going to change with the new contract. We don't have reserve lines and the way things are going...you'll be flying the line.

2) NJA policy is that F/O cannot fly pax until they have 250 hours in the aircraft. No big deal considering that nearly every second or third leg is empty. Some Captains still feel the need to fly all pax legs but it my policy, and that of most the Captains I know, to let F/O's fly pax legs.

3) As far as serving food....not really. You have to get the catering on board the aircraft but as far as spoon feeding the owners...."ain't gonna do it". Now, if they ask for a soda or cup of coffee.....hey, no big deal.....but maybe for some people it is.

4) Yes, we do clean the aircraft or I think it more accurate to say....more often than not we get the fbo people to vaccuum out the plane. Part of this type of business is self-sufficiency. We go to alot of out-of-the-way airports, that's why our business is growing the way it is, occationally you have to clean things up. We're only talking about a 7 to 10 pax plane here. Don't forget that the airlines have lost their ability to provide service...that's one of the many reasons people are flocking to the fractionals.

5) and finally, I ceretainly don't miss commuting to work. I get myself to my Gateway and the company provides the means of transportation, positive space!!!!! No more having to jumpseat, worry wx delays or oversold flights.

This job isn't for everyone. They hire pilots with personalities here...not attitudes. We have had guys come here thinking that they have already "paid their dues" and aren't going to tidy up a plane of greet the folks in a friendly manner.....those guys don't usually last too long....and for good reason, they don't belong here.

 

[FatesPawn]

We don't have reserve lines and the way things are going...you'll be flying the line.

As long as we're picking nits .... ALL we have at Nutjets is Reserve. Actually, the way our current "bullpen" works it's worse than 121 reserve. You don't know when you're in rest and when you aren't. Sure, that'll change under 91k or 135.... but 121 has had that for 4 years.

The BEST schedule you'll get at Netjets is 15 days off a month, with 15 days of "on call". If you don't mind not knowing what your schedule is, then it ain't so bad.

 

[Flex]

Well, if you read Davis's post, you will see he was only at NJA for four months before returning to the world of 121. I'm sorry he had to put up wilh all the bs in training then only find that it wasn't his cup of tea. NJA is not like 121. This has been said again and again. Many guys will not want to adapt. Many senior NJA guys never saw the inside of of a 121 cockpit. Many flew their first jets at NJA. We also have many furloughed airline guys, retired guys as well (yes, we have retired guys from DAL, UAL, etc). And of course your military dudes. It's a pretty mixed bag, but most have one thing in common. Two actually. 1. They believe that they are underpaid, worked too hard, expected to wear too many hats for what they get in their paycheck. 2. They hope that the new contract (whenever that happens, if it happens) will take care of these concerns. Until then, I would have to say, you need to go to NJA thinking there WON'T be a new contract. Too many guys have been suckered in thinking things would change. If and when it happens, then it will be a bonus. I hope. I'm tired of hearing NJA guys saying, "We will all get 7 and 7 with the new contract" when we don't have one, yet. I'm tired of hearing guys answer the question about schedules by saying, "we have the 7 and 7, but I'm on the 17 day." I've been at NJA for almost two years, cannot upgrade, cannot hold the 7 and 7. Don' t come here expecting that right away. If you get here, and bang, we get the new contract, then excellent, we can all go out and have a beer. What I should really be telling anyone expecting to come here is, "I hope you have deep pockets, because if we go on strike, you will need the cash." I believe my MEC would agree with me there. Speculating on what our pay will be and how everyone will get the 7 and 7 with the new contract is irresponsible to those aspiring to come here. When it's in black and white, signed and sealed, then we can say these things.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Also, you cannot fly pax legs..that is right you arent worthy according to the mighty customer and the clowns in cmh.

Why didn't you fly pax legs? All the FOM requires is something like 350 hours in the aiplane and u can fly from the right seat. Hell, with 250 hours you can fly from the left seat if the back is empty. Those are more fun anyway.

 

[FLYLOW22]

ALL we have at Nutjets is Reserve.

Well... Kinda. You know what day you are working. You just don't know where you are going

Actually, the way our current "bullpen" works it's worse than 121 reserve.

121 Reserve rest and duty used to be exactly the same as 91K before sometime in 2000/2001 when the FAA said no more "bullpen" to them. 91K has just taken longer. 121 now has "shifts" that pilots bid for in a 24 period.

You don't know when you're in rest and when you aren't. Sure, that'll change under 91k or 135.... but 121 has had that for 4 years.

Paitence Grasshopper. It's coming. It's in the books and has a Feb 05 rollout date.

The BEST schedule you'll get at Netjets is 15 days off a month, with 15 days of "on call". If you don't mind not knowing what your schedule is, then it ain't so bad.

The schedule at NJA is very manageable and predictable. No commute so your days off are your days off (from midnight to midnight). I'd rather have 15 days off to myself (NJA) rather than 15 days off (121) AND have to make a commute to work 3 or 4 times a month, stress out if I'm gonna make my flight, get a hotel the night before and the night after a trip, etc, etc, etc. Thank God they can jumpseat easily.... THEY HAVE TO!!