Netjets vs CAL

[n7715x]

Keep in mind that 85% requirement is only something they need to achieve if they wish to extend the contract the extra three years...not an outright obligation. Although, from what I hear NJI is "in the bag" FWIW.

 

[NJA Capt]

But to mention turning us off in the context of not needing the supplemental uplift is misleading. Sure, we had an incident. Let's call it how it is.

To be honest, I didn't know you had an accident. You might want to find out the "real" reason you were cut before making assumptions. I will not bring it up in a private forum, but the fact that remains is whether we needed lift or not, it was worth cutting xo from the team.

 

[Scrapdog]

All: Thought I'd throw another 'what should I do?' question to see other people's ideas about this...

I'm currently a FO at CAL, and have been onboard for 2 yrs now. Based on current movement, I could be a 737 Capt as early as next year, which is pretty amazing. However QOL is not what I would like, and 12 days off with 100+ hrs in the plane (lots of deadhead) is already getting old. 7 and 7 with a reduced flying load sounds really nice right now. Basically CAL is just not as enjoyable as I envisioned it.

I would love to relocate back out West again, and with your TA, that might be able to happen. Since I'm in the EWR area, I could work TEB until getting out to BOI or somewhere similar. I currently make slightly more than a Netjets newhire would, so making a plunge wouldn't hurt too bad financially. I'm 37 and have quite a few years of flying left.

CAL pros:
Pay over the long term Moving up seniority fast
Perhaps more stable (very arguable)
New contract might be good (arguable again)
CAL cons:
work rules
time off
domiciles (desire to live west w/o a difficult commute. I'm not holding my breath on getting a LAX base)

I used to love flying into FBO's. Varied flying also appeals to me, and I feel I could hobnob w/ clients pretty easily. I'm out to make a reasonable living with good time off to do the things I like to do with my wife and kids.

Call me crazy, but I'm serious about leaving the majors if Netjets would take me. What do you think? Should I be patient and wait it out at CAL? If I leave, I feel it should be soon since I'm not a spring chicken any more. Thanks for any info/advice....

Hasta,

Navin

Navin - I certainly don't get my panties in a wad over one airline over the other, trust me. However, like you - I fly for CAL and I decidedly enjoy it. However (again), I have an entire seperate side of flying - fighters in the military - which you don't. Getting to fly in both worlds is actually a lot of fun, and that diversity is what makes it interesting. I can certainly understand if you get bored quickly with one type of flying.

OK, listen - as a CAL compatriat I would highly worn you of jumping ship just yet. Our new contract is just around the corner...and with our profits kicking a$$, tons of young dudes on the property, and a fired up MEC, I really think we're going to get a pretty damn good contract in '08. Think patience brother...you've only been here 2 years. If you jump ship now and we get a very respectable contract - which again, I truley think we will - you'll be kicking yourself in the a$$ for years to come. NJA's has a good business plan, but you'll soon tire of that act as well....and you'll be doing it for quite a bit less pay, benefits, etc...I think you should be patient for another year or two. If we get a FDX type contract or something similiar I really think you'll be changing your tune. And if you still don't like it - you can easily jump ship at that time just as easily as you can now.

As for DAL - give me a break. Worst customer service period. You go there now and you'll be flying a piece of garbage MD88 out of JFK and realize it's the same poke your eyes out flying that happens at CAL in the 737 - but now you've got a retarded looking double breasted blazer and a much older/archaic airplane to deal with to boot. But I know you're more sensible than that.

 

[NavinRJohnson]

Scrapdog:

Raptors? Nice. Flying a P-3 wasn't quite like that. Our wardroom was full of "so there I was, at 5 degrees angle of bank". I miss the camaraderie of my fellow JO's but the Navy can have the rest.

I'd still be doing a reserve squadron, but cannot fathom leaving my family for longer than I already am. IRR is about all I have time for until I get more days off from CAL. Or I could move to NJ and have that time now, not 3 yrs from now (I'm assuming mgt is going to stall that long in our negotiations)

Trust me, If I left the airlines, I would leave ALL the airlines. I wouldn't go back to this sort of business.

The financial aspect is entirely true. I would be leaving behind a potentially lucrative future. But my current PBS bid for November sums up my current situation. It awarded me 13 days straight flying without a break.

Navin...

 

[NavinRJohnson]

I'm adding to my last post.

I truly hope ALPA can bring back the life we once had, but I'm just not sure how much we can actually attain. Theres a sizable group hired 24 yrs ago that might not be in accord with the union.

And with a merger, all career expectations would be gone.

Right now, I could give a dam-n about compensation--the work rules are what are killing us.

Granted, both need to be improved dramatically, especially for me to stay on board.

I appreciate the other viewpoint. Excellent points. I've a lot to weigh over the coming months.

Thanks, Navin

 

[johnsonrod]

I'm adding to my last post.

I truly hope ALPA can bring back the life we once had, but I'm just not sure how much we can actually attain. Theres a sizable group hired 24 yrs ago that might not be in accord with the union.

And with a merger, all career expectations would be gone.

Right now, I could give a dam-n about compensation--the work rules are what are killing us.

Granted, both need to be improved dramatically, especially for me to stay on board.

I appreciate the other viewpoint. Excellent points. I've a lot to weigh over the coming months.

Thanks, Navin

If QOL and living near a desirable domicile are two critical factors for you, it sounds like CAL won't cut it until they open a commutable West Coast base. At least in your case.

NJA may very well offer 95 incremental domiciles in the very near future including every major city on the West Coast (I heard even Tucson was included on the list). I think quite a few major and regional airline pilots will be very interested in learning more about Netjets if the TA passes.

It's your life and your family. We all know there is more to life than just flying. I know that I am personally so tired of 121 flying and restricted domiciles (my regional is in the Midwest with few choices) that the fractional world seems very appealing to me at the moment and Netjets is the undisputed industry leader. I think focusing on what is important to you (sounds like QOL and living where you want to live on the West Coast) should guide you to the proper decision if you have both options. So, focus on what is important to you - not on what might be important to others...

Regardless, CAL and Netjets are both leaders in their respective industries - you can't lose with either in my opinion.

 

[NavinRJohnson]

I agree 100%. I'm in an excellent position... Hence the agony.

 

[GogglesPisano]

As for DAL - give me a break. Worst customer service period. You go there now and you'll be flying a piece of garbage MD88 out of JFK and realize it's the same poke your eyes out flying that happens at CAL in the 737 - but now you've got a retarded looking double breasted blazer and a much older/archaic airplane to deal with to boot. But I know you're more sensible than that.

New hires at DAL are going directly into the 767.

 

[RP170]

New hires at DAL are going directly into the 767.

Nice. So they can sit on reserve forever and sit in a cockpit for 8 hours at a time. Where do I sign up?

 

[GogglesPisano]

Nice. So they can sit on reserve forever and sit in a cockpit for 8 hours at a time. Where do I sign up?

It's not for everyone. But neither is fractional flying. To each his own. :beer: