Netjets vs CAL

[learflyer]

I
no offence..........

none "takin"

 

[X-rated]

Sounds like a decent payscale, good to hear!

I have an occasional overnight at home and have decided I am better off in a hotel. It is usually 10-12 hours off and I get more rest if I just stay away. Too much on the to-do list if I try and go home for the night and get any rest. Maybe if it happened more regularly I would be able to deal with it better, who knows.

Oh, and X-rated- this is not a mine is better or bigger than yours discussion, just a sharing of information. Keep the "I fly a X" ego's out of it. I have sat in a X and I am perfectly content in my roomy little Hawker 800XP even at M.79. It sounds like XOjet is putting some decent pilot jobs out there and that is good for everyone, who cares what you are flying anyway. I actually thought it was pretty cool when I could say I was flying an Ultra for 90K per year. My airline friends loved hearing that.

You are right. That was uncalled for. Please accept my apology. I was just getting tired of all of those condescending posts, and thought it was time set the record straight.

I don't give a crap who flys the bigger airplane, I was just pointing out that there are some valid benifits to chosing a smaller rapidly growing company. I have no doubt that NJA is a great place to work, but so is XOJet. And, yes, it did feel good to take a little shot; he deserved it.

Congratulations to all NetJets pilots on your new TA.
It is good for all of us in the long run.

 

[100fly]

That is good to hear that XOJet does pay well. It seems to me that right now the fractionals are racing to the top and we are getting raises as opposed to the airline's race to the bottom. I feel that we get paid well here at NetJets and if XOJet pays more then that helps us justify better contracts and higher pay for our pilot group in the future. We are all in this together.

 

[brokeflyer]

Good for you! I'm a two year captain at XOJET, and my CURRENT base pay is 94,500 working 17/15.

lol....yeah right.....then you woke up....

 

[t-bone]

lol....yeah right.....then you woke up....

So now you're disputing something that you have NO WAY of knowing the truth to? Have you seen our contract? We don't have one, so I know the answer.

If you think he's dreaming about a BASE salary of $94,500, then there is no further reason to carry on an intelligent conversation with you. You sir, are mistaken in your facts.

For everyone else interested in XOJET, please continue to PM either myself or X-Rated. We both are happy to answer any questions you've got.

 

[brokeflyer]

no im not disputing it.....lol

if your happy then please...stay there....lol

Im happy where Im at and was trying to spread the greatness.....just as you are.

the more people we get the better my seniority.

That post was because I seen that it dont jive with what another thread referenced the payscale as....

 

[X-rated]

no im not disputing it.....lol

if your happy then please...stay there....lol

Im happy where Im at and was trying to spread the greatness.....just as you are.

the more people we get the better my seniority.

That post was because I seen that it dont jive with what another thread referenced the payscale as....

Dude,

All of your "..... lols" are creeping me out. Is that a nervous tick or what?

Go back check the other thread. You'll probably notice I'm the one who posted it. Just to refresh your memory, 1st year starting captain salary is currently 90K. And yes, qualified pilots can be hired as a captain, and if you're not yet qualified, don't worry. You will upgrade as soon as you are qualified.

Now, in fairness to all of the CAL guys who are trying to get usefull information out of this thread, I'll admit my base is 4,500 more than a new captain at XO, and you admit a new hire at NJ has zero chance of upgrading in the next three years.

Man, I hope you do keep spreading the news about how great NetJets is. Just stop bashing us because you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

Have a nice day...

 

[I Hate Freight]

Well this thread was hijacked quite nicely.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Thread Hijack or no.

I am VERY pleased to see the compensation package offered at XOjet. I would rather have competition paying rates similar to ours at NJA (or more) than bottom, basement rates.

Other things to consider when comparing XOjet and NJA but I won't get into it here. Doesn't matter.

CAL or NJA?? Hmmm.

It all depends what the individual wants to do.

I did the airline thing for several years at a commuter then at a major. It was fun. I never thougth I'd be doing any other type of flying and I didn't want to. 2001 changed all of that so I took a leap of faith.

NJA has worked out to tbe a VERY comfortable fit for my and my wifes lives.

Frax flying vs. 121. One word. FREEDOM.

I airline on day one and day last (usually). I can't stand the experience of it anymore. I used to love it. I used to love the gossip, the who did who... it was like a daytime soap opera.

I hate TSA. I hate Shaneequa yelling in the PA like she's herding cattle into the jetway. I hate the Mesa flight attendant who is no better in the plane. It's crowded. Some guy farted and the APU isn't running so there is no airflow. PHL... need I say more?

We mix it up in the FRAX world as far as the flying we do. In a "typical" tour (there is no typical tour) we will fly to I'ntl airports, regional airports, municipal airports, private airports (ranch, club, residence property). We fly our planes to mix with the trafic accordingly. Traffic at KSFO flys a bit faster and differently than at 21XS. We still have dispatchers to prepare the flight releases and do weight and balance. We have schedulers. We have all of the things that a major airline would have to enable the pilot to do their job safely.

The schedule is fine. You know WHEN you will work but not WHERE you will go. The winter is all about the islands, S. FL and the moutains (Aspen, TEX, GJT). Summer is all about East to West. October to April is our busy time. Summer is a great time to take vacation 21 days at a time. I have 3 21 day periods in a year. Some guys have 2, some 4.

There is ample opportunity to make extra money in the new TA (if it passes). The income range will vary based on the schedule flown (7n7, 18 day, 15 FLEX), flying any open time if desired, selling back sick days or vacation days flying on 10 days we have slated as "holidays", etc.

60 NET airplanes next year... that's not including the companies requirement (if the TA passes) to enable NJA pilots to fly 85% of the int'l flights to an from our Domestic System. It will take more airframes to meet that number.

I believe that NJA management has seen that is can profit more by keeping employees happy. YES, that means spending more initially but the result is a butt-load of profits. We've all seen what "fighting the good fight" will yield; nothing good.

Stay at CAL if you like "big planes". Stay at CAL if you like flying "regular folks" to and from the center of the spider web. Stay at CAL if you have enough seniority to have a good career there. Stay at CAL if you like the multi-crew work environment.

I can't think of anything else.

 

[On Your Six]

Thread Hijack or no.

I am VERY pleased to see the compensation package offered at XOjet. I would rather have competition paying rates similar to ours at NJA (or more) than bottom, basement rates.

Other things to consider when comparing XOjet and NJA but I won't get into it here. Doesn't matter.

CAL or NJA?? Hmmm.

It all depends what the individual wants to do.

I did the airline thing for several years at a commuter then at a major. It was fun. I never thougth I'd be doing any other type of flying and I didn't want to. 2001 changed all of that so I took a leap of faith.

NJA has worked out to tbe a VERY comfortable fit for my and my wifes lives.

Frax flying vs. 121. One word. FREEDOM.

I airline on day one and day last (usually). I can't stand the experience of it anymore. I used to love it. I used to love the gossip, the who did who... it was like a daytime soap opera.

I hate TSA. I hate Shaneequa yelling in the PA like she's herding cattle into the jetway. I hate the Mesa flight attendant who is no better in the plane. It's crowded. Some guy farted and the APU isn't running so there is no airflow. PHL... need I say more?

We mix it up in the FRAX world as far as the flying we do. In a "typical" tour (there is no typical tour) we will fly to I'ntl airports, regional airports, municipal airports, private airports (ranch, club, residence property). We fly our planes to mix with the trafic accordingly. Traffic at KSFO flys a bit faster and differently than at 21XS. We still have dispatchers to prepare the flight releases and do weight and balance. We have schedulers. We have all of the things that a major airline would have to enable the pilot to do their job safely.

The schedule is fine. You know WHEN you will work but not WHERE you will go. The winter is all about the islands, S. FL and the moutains (Aspen, TEX, GJT). Summer is all about East to West. October to April is our busy time. Summer is a great time to take vacation 21 days at a time. I have 3 21 day periods in a year. Some guys have 2, some 4.

There is ample opportunity to make extra money in the new TA (if it passes). The income range will vary based on the schedule flown (7n7, 18 day, 15 FLEX), flying any open time if desired, selling back sick days or vacation days flying on 10 days we have slated as "holidays", etc.

60 NET airplanes next year... that's not including the companies requirement (if the TA passes) to enable NJA pilots to fly 85% of the int'l flights to an from our Domestic System. It will take more airframes to meet that number.

I believe that NJA management has seen that is can profit more by keeping employees happy. YES, that means spending more initially but the result is a butt-load of profits. We've all seen what "fighting the good fight" will yield; nothing good.

Stay at CAL if you like "big planes". Stay at CAL if you like flying "regular folks" to and from the center of the spider web. Stay at CAL if you have enough seniority to have a good career there. Stay at CAL if you like the multi-crew work environment.

I can't think of anything else.

Very well said. I hear fractional flying isn't for everyone (some people need more structure) - you have to have an open mind at first. That said, many former 121 pilots who have transitioned over to the fractional world will never go back. They like the freedom and the constant variety inherent in this type of flying. They like meeting interesting people - they actually want to interact with their passengers vs. just turning left when they get on the airplane. The realities of airline flying include long delays on the ground and in the air due to congestion/weather, financial insecurity, upset passengers with super-high expectations - it's a different world from the airline flying a few decades back.

Fractional flying ain't perfect either by a long shot, but it certainly is catching a lot more interest from all aviation professionals (and Netjet's TA will get a lot more attention if it passes).

 

[n7715x]

Keep in mind that 85% requirement is only something they need to achieve if they wish to extend the contract the extra three years...not an outright obligation. Although, from what I hear NJI is "in the bag" FWIW.

 

[NJA Capt]

But to mention turning us off in the context of not needing the supplemental uplift is misleading. Sure, we had an incident. Let's call it how it is.

To be honest, I didn't know you had an accident. You might want to find out the "real" reason you were cut before making assumptions. I will not bring it up in a private forum, but the fact that remains is whether we needed lift or not, it was worth cutting xo from the team.

 

[Scrapdog]

All: Thought I'd throw another 'what should I do?' question to see other people's ideas about this...

I'm currently a FO at CAL, and have been onboard for 2 yrs now. Based on current movement, I could be a 737 Capt as early as next year, which is pretty amazing. However QOL is not what I would like, and 12 days off with 100+ hrs in the plane (lots of deadhead) is already getting old. 7 and 7 with a reduced flying load sounds really nice right now. Basically CAL is just not as enjoyable as I envisioned it.

I would love to relocate back out West again, and with your TA, that might be able to happen. Since I'm in the EWR area, I could work TEB until getting out to BOI or somewhere similar. I currently make slightly more than a Netjets newhire would, so making a plunge wouldn't hurt too bad financially. I'm 37 and have quite a few years of flying left.

CAL pros:
Pay over the long term Moving up seniority fast
Perhaps more stable (very arguable)
New contract might be good (arguable again)
CAL cons:
work rules
time off
domiciles (desire to live west w/o a difficult commute. I'm not holding my breath on getting a LAX base)

I used to love flying into FBO's. Varied flying also appeals to me, and I feel I could hobnob w/ clients pretty easily. I'm out to make a reasonable living with good time off to do the things I like to do with my wife and kids.

Call me crazy, but I'm serious about leaving the majors if Netjets would take me. What do you think? Should I be patient and wait it out at CAL? If I leave, I feel it should be soon since I'm not a spring chicken any more. Thanks for any info/advice....

Hasta,

Navin

Navin - I certainly don't get my panties in a wad over one airline over the other, trust me. However, like you - I fly for CAL and I decidedly enjoy it. However (again), I have an entire seperate side of flying - fighters in the military - which you don't. Getting to fly in both worlds is actually a lot of fun, and that diversity is what makes it interesting. I can certainly understand if you get bored quickly with one type of flying.

OK, listen - as a CAL compatriat I would highly worn you of jumping ship just yet. Our new contract is just around the corner...and with our profits kicking a$$, tons of young dudes on the property, and a fired up MEC, I really think we're going to get a pretty damn good contract in '08. Think patience brother...you've only been here 2 years. If you jump ship now and we get a very respectable contract - which again, I truley think we will - you'll be kicking yourself in the a$$ for years to come. NJA's has a good business plan, but you'll soon tire of that act as well....and you'll be doing it for quite a bit less pay, benefits, etc...I think you should be patient for another year or two. If we get a FDX type contract or something similiar I really think you'll be changing your tune. And if you still don't like it - you can easily jump ship at that time just as easily as you can now.

As for DAL - give me a break. Worst customer service period. You go there now and you'll be flying a piece of garbage MD88 out of JFK and realize it's the same poke your eyes out flying that happens at CAL in the 737 - but now you've got a retarded looking double breasted blazer and a much older/archaic airplane to deal with to boot. But I know you're more sensible than that.

 

[NavinRJohnson]

Scrapdog:

Raptors? Nice. Flying a P-3 wasn't quite like that. Our wardroom was full of "so there I was, at 5 degrees angle of bank". I miss the camaraderie of my fellow JO's but the Navy can have the rest.

I'd still be doing a reserve squadron, but cannot fathom leaving my family for longer than I already am. IRR is about all I have time for until I get more days off from CAL. Or I could move to NJ and have that time now, not 3 yrs from now (I'm assuming mgt is going to stall that long in our negotiations)

Trust me, If I left the airlines, I would leave ALL the airlines. I wouldn't go back to this sort of business.

The financial aspect is entirely true. I would be leaving behind a potentially lucrative future. But my current PBS bid for November sums up my current situation. It awarded me 13 days straight flying without a break.

Navin...

 

[NavinRJohnson]

I'm adding to my last post.

I truly hope ALPA can bring back the life we once had, but I'm just not sure how much we can actually attain. Theres a sizable group hired 24 yrs ago that might not be in accord with the union.

And with a merger, all career expectations would be gone.

Right now, I could give a dam-n about compensation--the work rules are what are killing us.

Granted, both need to be improved dramatically, especially for me to stay on board.

I appreciate the other viewpoint. Excellent points. I've a lot to weigh over the coming months.

Thanks, Navin

 

[johnsonrod]

I'm adding to my last post.

I truly hope ALPA can bring back the life we once had, but I'm just not sure how much we can actually attain. Theres a sizable group hired 24 yrs ago that might not be in accord with the union.

And with a merger, all career expectations would be gone.

Right now, I could give a dam-n about compensation--the work rules are what are killing us.

Granted, both need to be improved dramatically, especially for me to stay on board.

I appreciate the other viewpoint. Excellent points. I've a lot to weigh over the coming months.

Thanks, Navin

If QOL and living near a desirable domicile are two critical factors for you, it sounds like CAL won't cut it until they open a commutable West Coast base. At least in your case.

NJA may very well offer 95 incremental domiciles in the very near future including every major city on the West Coast (I heard even Tucson was included on the list). I think quite a few major and regional airline pilots will be very interested in learning more about Netjets if the TA passes.

It's your life and your family. We all know there is more to life than just flying. I know that I am personally so tired of 121 flying and restricted domiciles (my regional is in the Midwest with few choices) that the fractional world seems very appealing to me at the moment and Netjets is the undisputed industry leader. I think focusing on what is important to you (sounds like QOL and living where you want to live on the West Coast) should guide you to the proper decision if you have both options. So, focus on what is important to you - not on what might be important to others...

Regardless, CAL and Netjets are both leaders in their respective industries - you can't lose with either in my opinion.

 

[NavinRJohnson]

I agree 100%. I'm in an excellent position... Hence the agony.

 

[GogglesPisano]

As for DAL - give me a break. Worst customer service period. You go there now and you'll be flying a piece of garbage MD88 out of JFK and realize it's the same poke your eyes out flying that happens at CAL in the 737 - but now you've got a retarded looking double breasted blazer and a much older/archaic airplane to deal with to boot. But I know you're more sensible than that.

New hires at DAL are going directly into the 767.

 

[RP170]

New hires at DAL are going directly into the 767.

Nice. So they can sit on reserve forever and sit in a cockpit for 8 hours at a time. Where do I sign up?

 

[GogglesPisano]

Nice. So they can sit on reserve forever and sit in a cockpit for 8 hours at a time. Where do I sign up?

It's not for everyone. But neither is fractional flying. To each his own. :beer: