NetJets Unrest Puts Warren Buffett in a Rare Pinch

[Pervis]

Well I guess we do agree that she held a sign and was excited and enthusiastic. I did not see her walk in circles.

I can assure you the reference to greed was not directed at you or any other owner. It is solely directed, referenced in the signs, that management greed wants to improve their plight on our backs. There was no way she could have known you were a Netjets owner, private owner, Wheels Up, etc.

I cannot and will not vouch for a crew member I do not personally know or am a whiteness to their behavior. I can vouch for the vast majority of us who are very dedicated to our profession and those who do matter most to us-you.

Unfortunately, like in every business, there are a few who make the many look bad, but based upon our schedule, I would not be so hasty to judge that crew member in the recliner. I do know for a fact OS frequently relays info to owners that is beyond far from the truth, or they simply have no idea what is going on with that crew.

I know for certain I will shield you from my personal affairs to keep you from worrying about where my mind is. I also know for certain that I would never place your or my safety on the line if something was distracting to the point of compromising safety. There are some who feel pressured to do just that. Do you think it wise to treat your most safety conscious employees into that way?

We are there for you, and by extension, ourselves. Look at the difference before and after November 2005. The big difference, though, is it was simply business with RTS. The current EMT could care less about you or us, as long as your check clears and we work for a fraction of what our industry standard pays.

 

[realityman]

Realityman -- first -- this board is filled with posts from pilots imploring other pilots to do as much as possible to delay trips, for even the most minuscule of items, even ones not regarding safety, in order to cause pain and embarrassment to NJA. There must be thousands of them - and many pilots admitting to do it. All I am saying is I have experienced it and I do not think it endears the pilots to the owners (and quite frankly, the company does an outstanding job of self-inflicted harm so the pilots really don't need to add any).

Secondly, I did not realize this was an SAT verbal test exercise. I really did not spend much time choosing the word "chant" or "yell" as opposed to shout, speak, bellow, enthusiastically speak, etc. My fault. I guess your real calling is a criminal defense attorney or investigative reporting finding these massive discrepancies.

Well, as a pilot I've learned the little things can be very important and mean a lot. No need to be an investigative anything. My "talents" are put to good use keeping my flights safe and comfortable.

But there is a very big difference between "yelling at you" and "chanting while looking your way". However, I think you knew that.

Once again, please provide some form of corporeal evidence that your pilot in a recliner was performing a work slowdown. Do you know how many people typically frequent these boards, and more specifically the fractional section? I highly doubt there is a grass roots movement underway to cause a slowdown. Anyone trying that from these boards is an idiot. The audience appears to be around 20, and not all from Netjets.

And given this EMT's willingness to fire people over pretty much anything, our union and it's members have only promoted safe, legal flying. It's really all we have to protect ourselves. No one is promoting a work slowdown. You are mistaken. If delays happen more often these days it's only because the planes are less reliable, we're being worked like rented mules, and our best defense is to be more thorough and deliberate in our duties than in the past.

Perception is reality, and obviously you're perceiving a work slowdown. Sorry about that. I can only explain it so many times and so many ways.

Good luck.

 

[X-rated]

Yeah, that's probably the best course of action. Argue with an owner about how an incident made him feel, and then by all means, make sure you cross examine him about every detail. I love how you claim best in class customer service and then prove it with a display like this. Perhaps an introduction to a mirror is in order?

We all spend our lives going in and out of FBO's and we're not blind. What Owner says about the pilot sitting in the recliner just rings true. Contract negotiations or not, NJA pilots often seem not to be in any particular hurry and are less concerned with the optics than some other operators. Realityman claims several plausible reasons why the pilot may not be ready to go, but none of them justify a pilot lounging in a recliner in view of an owner waiting to go. I'm not advocating running around like a chicken with it's head cut off just before you commit aviation, but a purposeful and visible reaction toward that end is expected when an owner shows up. If there is a delay beyond your control, an explanation is in order. You can't claim best in class service and not understand how your actions or inactions are perceived.

 

[Hawkered]

Best post on this thread so far!! I fear the end of Netjets may be sooner than many of us realize.

 

[Willy21]

If the end is near so be it. The decline in NetJets started when RTS was sent packing and the bottom line tyrants moved in. Yes there are bad apples out there, but let's be honest. If you are treated like crap you will produce crap.

 

[ProFracPilot]

If you are treated like crap you will produce crap.

But the airplanes are still being flown (safely, of course) and Mr / Mrs Big Bucks are getting where they want to go. I'm convinced the typical fractional owner/customer doesn't care about the (perceived) "quality" of the brand like they used to. The airplanes and pilots are held to relatively the same standards across all brands, right? Fractional uplift, like the airlines, has matured to commoditization. So the managements of these companies are going to work HARD to extract as much productivity at the lowest cost as they can from all their employee groups. Flex pilots are now having their cheese moved and learning the (hard) lesson that anything KCR touches becomes a "value" brand. And he considers his employees as such, as evidenced by how he's changing the bonus structure (among other changes). And I think your EMT has adopted the same strategy.

If the typical customer doesn't demand different, what's the incentive for these management groups to behave any different?

 

[realityman]

Yeah, that's probably the best course of action. Argue with an owner about how an incident made him feel, and then by all means, make sure you cross examine him about every detail. I love how you claim best in class customer service and then prove it with a display like this. Perhaps an introduction to a mirror is in order?

We all spend our lives going in and out of FBO's and we're not blind. What Owner says about the pilot sitting in the recliner just rings true. Contract negotiations or not, NJA pilots often seem not to be in any particular hurry and are less concerned with the optics than some other operators. Realityman claims several plausible reasons why the pilot may not be ready to go, but none of them justify a pilot lounging in a recliner in view of an owner waiting to go. I'm not advocating running around like a chicken with it's head cut off just before you commit aviation, but a purposeful and visible reaction toward that end is expected when an owner shows up. If there is a delay beyond your control, an explanation is in order. You can't claim best in class service and not understand how your actions or inactions are perceived.

Man, some of you guys on here are spring loaded to assume everything is an argument. Here's a shocking revelation for you: Sometimes what's said here is a DISCUSSION. It can even be a discussion where the two parties disagree. That isn't necessarily an argument. I've offered possible alternative explanations for what Owner experienced. I pointed out discrepancies in his stories. Tried to explain why things are going the way they are. Have I called names? Threatened? Gotten hostile in any way? So where is this argument of which you speak?

Second, this is FI. Not the airport or Netjets' offices. I prefer to keep things civil, and always try to achieve that. But on an anonymous message board sometimes anything goes. Heck, is he really even a Netjets client? (for the record, I believe he is). Am I even a Netjets pilot? Or a pilot at all? The point is, on an anonymous message board we're all equal, and as such speak our minds more freely. However, to put your mind at ease, I would not/have not ever treated a client with anything less than the utmost respect, even when I've had the (very rare) case of a client in my face yelling at me for things outside of my control.

That being said, I have had the occasion or two to point out in person to a client that they are wrong about something (related to the trip). I try very hard to do it respectfully without putting them down, but make it clear where I think they're wrong (they're usually drawing an incorrect conclusion about why we aren't taking off, especially when other operators are). The point is, being a client doesn't mean I won't tell them i think they're wrong about something, whether it's at the airport, on the plane, or here. Best in class and service does not mean having to agree with everything a client says or does.

And no, most of us aren't in a particular hurry. Mistakes get made that way. I'm not talking about sitting in a recliner chair while a client is standing there ready to go, but most of us intentionally take our time. And for me personally, if a client shows up in an all-fired hurry, I move even slower. I will not concede to a pressure to rush, and make an effort to actively fight against that pressure by taking it just a bit slower. I witnessed a crew once who were late picking up passengers (I won't mention which operator). They parked next to us and I watched as BOTH pilots got up from the flight deck and start running around to get things going. Problem was, they left the engines running! I had to run around to their door and point out to the pilots in the back of the plane that their engines were still running. So yes, we try hard not to be in any kind of hurry.

By the way, Owner and I have had a very pleasant exchange of PM's over the past couple days. Perhaps we understand each other a bit better now. We're good, so you can relax.

 

[X-rated]

argue |ˈ?rgyo͞o|
verb (argues, arguing, argued)
1 [ reporting verb ] give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view.

A discussion doesn't have to be an argument, but you were, none the less, in fact, arguing. I never said you called him names or threatened him. Guess what? You and I are arguing right now despite it also being a civil discussion.

My point was you presumed to know more than Owner despite him being there and witnessing what he did and you not being there. It seemed a bit disrespectful and the "discrepancies" you pointed out, well, certainly didn't convince me. Also, as you later pointed out, perception is reality. He is certainly entitled to perceive and decipher events as he sees them.

You then went on to give excuses about why a pilot might be lounging in a recliner while an owner waited to depart. My point was that is never acceptable under any circumstance to recline in a lounger while a customer looks on and waits for you. The optics of it are just never acceptable. If pilot needed to talk on the phone for a legitimate purpose, he could have at least stood up so he didn't look like he was blowing off a customer. He then should have apologized to the owner for keeping him waiting. If you don't understand that, you're not as good as you think you are.

As far as not hurrying, I think I made it perfectly clear that that I don't support hurrying either. However, there is a difference between methodically doing your job in a measured and controlled fashion and wasting time in the FBO. There is a big difference between Rushing and not procrastinating. I hate it when guys use safety as a catch all for irresponsible activity. I've been doing this a while too, so I'm probably just as qualified as you are to know the difference. But, by all means, go ahead and condescend to me again.

 

[realityman]

Condescending? Maybe you'd better read your own stuff.

I didn't witness the recliner incident, true. But when did I say I wasn't at the picket in Vegas? You're the one reaching some very judgmental conclusions without having been there. Go back and retread my stuff. At no point did I say I wasn't at Vegas. Perhaps I did have a front row seat, yes?

Your multiple references to my thinking how good I am are laughable and intended to be insulting. At no point have I mentioned ANYTHING that was an attempt to pump up my own image for anyone here. Where are you coming up with this stuff? I guess it's a way of making yourself feel better when you tell someone they're not as good as they think they are when that person never implied he was better or worse than anyone else.

Pilots are the worst when it comes to Monday morning quarterbacking. I presented some POSSIBLE alternatives to a work slowdown. Nothing I wrote was TELLING Owner how it really was. But it appears I'm up against a burgeoning optometrist here who is an expert on "optics". You weren't there either, yet you are TELLING me how it was with Mr. Recliner pilot. As I mentioned as a POSSIBILITY, maybe he had a few moments where he didn't feel well and he needed to recline for a few minutes and MAYBE by the time Owner arrived he was feeling better and was about to get up when Owner came in. But thanks for TELLING me there couldn't possibly be any good reason for him to be in that chair. For the record, it does sound like he was a lazy tool, but as he hasn't come here to give his side of it I cant, and won't, pass judgement on another pilot without all the facts. But you go right on doing that for all of us.

By the way, I wasn't aware that convincing YOU of anything was the litmus test for legitimacy of a point in a discussion or "argument". I'll make certain to taylor my future posts to be more convincing for YOU.

By the way, what is your definition of "wasting time" in an FBO? If you should see me load my passengers on the plane, then come inside and grab a bag of popcorn and water and start stuffing my face while simultaneously chatting with the girls behind the counter and making my passengers wait, am I wasting time in the FBO? I guess the "optics" would appear so. Do the "optics" of it also tell you that I've got a load manifest and weight&balance issue that needs resolved and I'm waiting in the FBO for the call from dispatch so I don't have to discuss it in front of the passengers and with all the noise on the ramp? Do I have to stand at military attention with my phone cocked and ready so the "optics" look like I'm doing aviation stuff?

There's always more to the story. But for you I guess it's always just a coin without a back.

 

[X-rated]

I don't want to go at this all day because I've already made my point. If you think it's okay to argue with an owner and cross examine him like you're Matlock, that's your choice. I believe I could go back and read your past posts and come up with a quote where you claim NJA pilots give best in class service. If that's not the case, I apologize in advance. I don't feel like doing it, so I'll take your word. Anyway, my opinion is that arguing with an owner about one of his actual recent trips and how he actually felt is probably not appropriate. There is a big difference between me arguing with you, and you arguing with an owner. I don't give a rip if you think I'm prick and I'm sure you don't care what I think. Aggressively "educating" an owner is a very different thing. But, you're a big boy and can and will obviously make your own decisions.

I'm glad you admitted recliner pilot was probably a lazy tool. I rarely Monday morning quarterback, but I still can't think of one reason why a pilot would lounge in a chair with the owner waiting to leave. If he was that sick, he didn't have any business flying. I purposely didn't try guess what his motivation was. It's irrelevant.

As far as the condescending comment, you seemed to be trying to educate me about the dangers of rushing like I had never thought of that. I took it as condescending. I suppose you were just trying to be helpful or tell an interesting story?

As for my multiple attacks on your competence, I reread both of my posts and I in fact made precisely one reference. I also qualified it with an "if you think," which I knew you really didn't. You're just an argumentative SOB who likes to "discuss" everything instead of just agreeing on obvious points.

I'm out. If we really need to continue this nonsense, I'll check back on Monday.