Netjets - The final stop?

[igneousy2]

If majors had 7 day trips they would go SENIOR. The less commutes you have a month the less stress you have and the more time you have at home. They don't because of the 30/7day rule. Regionals can because of their short legs, but majors as a practical matter can't have many domestic trips more than 4 days long.

Food for thought = Major airline bases are junior BECAUSE they are undesireable places to live/commute to. At my airline, the only acceptable place to live for me is the senior base which right now takes about 24 years as a Captain or 10 years as an FO to hold those 19-20 day off schedule I keep hearing about. LAX is just not my cup of tea and the thought of being based in ANC in the winter gives me nightmares.

My point is - YES , some major airline pilots get 19-20 off a month...but the vast majority don't...and it takes a VERY long time to get there. The vast majority of lines are in the 13-17 day off range.

I don't know much about regionals as I have been in the airlines for long so I can't say much about that...all I know is that historically the "top dog" in the airline industry has a VERY bad track record.

When I first started in this industry US Air was THE major to work for. Eastern was considered great at one point as was Pan Am (long before I got here). Then it was all about United...then Delta...now it's SWA SWA SWA.

I have a friend that interviewed at just about every major in the late 80's and was turned down by every one. He didn't interview very well and UAL, DAL, USAir, all turned him down. He was almost ASHAMED to take the job at FedEx as it was a last resort with no history, little pay, and poor benefits comapared to the legacies. Today he is a 21-year DC-10 Captain with another 5 to go (actually 10 because of age 65 but I doubt he'll do it). His biggest complaint now is that his last $50,000 he makes in a year doesn't count toward his pension calculation because of ERISA rules (you can only count the first $225,000). He will make more in retirement then anybody currently flying for United, Delta, or USAir.

You just never know.

 

[bluepost]

Voice of reason is green with envy and a very weak individual. Will he change? Nope. Will posting this change anything? Nope. The only reason I post is to throw another post out there for all who may be reading this board that this person is not in his right mind. If the world pulled a GE and cut 10% of the weakest from our population Voice would be gone.

I saw FLOPS for what it was 8 years ago, there wasn't any hope. RTA was the only positive thing in FLOPS history. Anyone who can't see that doesn't have the proper judgment to be a Captain. Will FLOPS survive? I only hope so if the company can afford to pay industry wages, otherwise it will be doing everyone a favor buy going out of business. It is possible that they will find their niche, but if not the good pilots will start over at NJA or a major and be making the same money they were at FLOPS within 2 years and their entire family will be better off in the long run. I thought the same about NJA 3 years ago, pay me or go out of business, seems like we have worked out a workable solution for the time being.

Flex at least has the backing of Bombardier, FLOPS is out taking a big gamble by trying to find a niche in this crazy market. There is always hope, but hope and logic don't always follow the same bell curve. FLOPS was trying to market "cheaper" to a client that doesn't care about money.

Now if you counter my last sentence with statements like "thats how they got their money", you are obviously missing my overall point, and it probably happens to you a lot in your life, and your constantly frustrated like Voice. Some people don't have a free throw, some don't have judgment. Not their fault but don't drag down my industry. I don't show up on the basketball court, don't show up in my industry and ruin the game.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Don't give Voice of Reason too hard a time. We all want to believe that the choices we made are the correct choices. Most of us would argue the choices we made until we were blue in the face in the hopes of convincing our peers that we did the right thing.

At the end of the day though there are hundred possible choices with a thousand possible results. We make the choices we make based on the information we have at the time. Whether anyone else agrees with what we did is irrelevant.

As long as we are able to support our families, buy a toy or two, and squirrel enough money away to retire sometime in our 60s or before, the gamble worked out.

But make no mistake it's all a gamble. Whether you work for NetJets or Delta, or FedEx, etc... It's all a gamble. Hopefully the gamble pays off. If it doesn't, we play again...and again... until the casino kicks us out for drunk and disorderly conduct.

 

[JungleJett]

His biggest complaint now is that his last $50,000 he makes in a year doesn't count toward his pension calculation because of ERISA rules (you can only count the first $225,000). He will make more in retirement then anybody currently flying for United, Delta, or USAir. /QUOTE]

If he lives very long. UPS was in my top three for a long time and spent a while at number 1. I know a ton of people there and think I had a pretty good shot at it. I just cannot wrap my head around the schedule. I know senior guys that look ten years older than they are. I have jumped on them and I see how worn out they are. I have a daughter at home I would like to walk down the aisle some day...and hold a grandchild as well. I will not trade health for money.

 

[Jafo73]

If he lives very long. UPS was in my top three for a long time and spent a while at number 1. I know a ton of people there and think I had a pretty good shot at it. I just cannot wrap my head around the schedule. I know senior guys that look ten years older than they are. I have jumped on them and I see how worn out they are. I have a daughter at home I would like to walk down the aisle some day...and hold a grandchild as well. I will not trade health for money.

I think that would depend on the individual too. My dad has worked for ABX Air since '91 doing the night flying (and they work a 7n7 type schedule) and he still gets asked if he is 10 years younger then he is.

 

[jtf]

NJA will hopefully be my last stop. I'm 2 years into my career here and now that I can live where I want I won't be thinking about another flying job unless something weird happens here to kill the company. Everyone has different things that are important to them and NJA certainly isn't the best place for everyone. With the 100 bases, NJA is the best place for me. It is worth it for me to live where I want and sacrifice the likely higher salaries and more time off that I would probably eventually get at a major. However, weird stuff happens in aviation all the time and companies that were great are now gone. A career is a long time and I'm planning on working another 30 or so years. I'm maxing out my 401k and saving for a rainy day just in case and I know exactly what I'll do outside of aviation in case I loose my medical or aviation jobs in general take a big dump. I believe NJA is as good a career job as there is in aviation, but it's still aviation and I'm not going to bet everything on NJA (or any other pilot job) lasting until I am ready to retire. I have no idea what aviation will be like in 30 years. All I know is that it will be very different than today, just as today is very different than 30 years ago.

 

[Seat 0A]

in case I loose my medical

Is this the opposite of a "tight" medical?

 

[Cooperd0g]

New here and a year from getting out of the military. With FedEx, UPS, and Southwest currently not hiring and possibly not hiring at all in 2008 I would have seriously considered NetJets. At least until the three others started hiring again. Then I would have had to weigh the options.

Unfortunately for me, NetJets has more rigid flight time requirements than the major airlines. I have about 100 hours of turbo-prop, 1600 hours of jet time, but only 20 piston. That makes me well below the 2500 total time requirement even though I have a fair amount of high performance jet experience. Frankly, I'm surprised at this, but oh well, that's the way it goes. My options now are to do another three years on active duty or go part time and try out for Delta or Continental or a contract adversary company.

By the time I have the flight time for NetJets, FedEx, UPS, and Southwest may be hiring. I have a few friends at each and where I live the commute is relatively easy on your own company planes at popular beginning bases. So they tell me anyway.

I think I would like the early stage quality of life better at NetJets, but with no kids right now and a wife who likes nice things (luckily she makes good money herself) I could muscle through some rough years to chase the money and quality of life that may (yes I know it is only 'may') be better at my top three choices.

In fact it is probably better for me that I can't apply to NetJets because otherwise I would. Then in a few years when FedEx, UPS and Southwest start hiring again I probably wouldn't want to leave NetJets. I like the varied flying possibilities and if my wife can handle 8 and 6 month deployments (oh, and I am away from home a bunch now anyway) she can definitely handle me being gone for two weeks a month or the 15 or 18 day flex schedules. In fact she likes having a week or two on her own every now and then. Sure, that might change when we have kids.

 

[kman]

Guys I was just running some numbers in my head, i have up 38 years to give the majors assuming I don't get laid off, I would at lets say the 20 yr point I would be working as much as 55 days a year extra at netjets, factoring in no vacation. After year 10 doesn't it get anybody. Your on duty for 26 weeks on the seven and seven, -4 weeks for vacation, still leaves 22 weeks of work( guys comp and a/c recurrent is still work) Averages out still to be about 12.83 days out on duty with vacation.

At most of the majors A senior captain or Fo 10-20 years of seniority should be able to day trips or only working 11-12 days a month not factoring in vacation. Yes i know I would have to live in base for the greatest QOL. But with commutter clauses, day trips, 4-5 days of less work a month, and the fact that I have 38 years to give, Right now is the time for me to leave.

 

[skiandsurf]

Guys I was just running some numbers in my head, i have up 38 years to give the majors assuming I don't get laid off, I would at lets say the 20 yr point I would be working as much as 55 days a year extra at netjets, factoring in no vacation. After year 10 doesn't it get anybody. Your on duty for 26 weeks on the seven and seven, -4 weeks for vacation, still leaves 22 weeks of work( guys comp and a/c recurrent is still work) Averages out still to be about 12.83 days out on duty with vacation.

At most of the majors A senior captain or Fo 10-20 years of seniority should be able to day trips or only working 11-12 days a month not factoring in vacation. Yes i know I would have to live in base for the greatest QOL. But with commutter clauses, day trips, 4-5 days of less work a month, and the fact that I have 38 years to give, Right now is the time for me to leave.

Your writing skills might keep you out of most cockpits.....oh wait, most pilots cant spell, so you should be just fine.

Something that you must think of, is seniority. At NJs, your schedules wont change too much. At the airlines, each time you change planes or upgrade, you are probably going to lose seniority, and days off.

I was just talking to an old friend, that is a senior 777 FO for CAL. He claims that he only works 9 days a month. He does not upgrade (make more money) because he doesnt want to work more. Hewas trying to convince me to apply at CAL, but I had to remind him that he has 18 yrs seniority, I would be starting off at the bottom, and have to commute to EWR. No thanks.