Netjets - The final stop?

[CA1900]

I am a 121 guy that is eyeballing NetJets. NetJets has a base where I live. I am currently commuting offline to work which is a real pain in the rear.

I commuted for several years with my last company, which has a bad track record for closing crew bases every time I move to one. :0 I feel your pain!

Can someone try and explain the benefits of a 7 on 7 off sched vs. a typical 121 sched with 15 days off?

For a commuter especially, it's a no-brainer. Instead of coming to work way early in the morning or the night before your trip, you show up at your chosen airport on your first workday, at the time assigned by 6pm the evening prior. That's it. Crashpads really don't exist here, and those extra nights at home before and after tripsadd up, believe me. My particular favorite was getting 3-on, 1 off, 3-on at the airline. Good luck going home and back!

Anyway, once you show up at work, you're on their time. If there's a plane there, you might take it. If it's at a nearby town, you might get a rental car or a taxi/limo. Farther than that, you'll get on an airline flight. In any case, all of it is done on your duty day, and on the company's dime. Ironically, riding on airlines is the biggest hassle we usually deal with! We do earn frequent-flier miles with those airline flights, though, so our vacations are all on real, positive-space tickets. No trying to beg for a ride with your family in tow, either.

... beg for ride home and occastionally check three different cities to fly into and rent a car if I can't go direct to my home.

Yep, been there. Nothing like a $100 rental car to get to your own car.

Our new contract has an interesting provision in it: If you finish your tour and are scheduled to airline home from some place you want to explore, you can get off duty right then and there, and book a ticket home (or wherever) at your leisure. The company will reimburse you up to what they would have paid to get you home on your normal last day. So if you end up in a town where you have family, for example, you can stay the night there and go home on your own time, but on the company's dime. Pretty nice.

Does it seem like you spend your 7 days off catching up on the stuff you couldn't do on your 7 on, ie, mowing the lawn, car repairs etc.

About the first day home is kind of my "recovery day," just loafing around and relaxing. After that, I take care of things around the house, as you said. 7 days off is really nice.

Most importanly spending time with the wife and kids?

Can't speak for the kids (don't have any), but it's real nice spending a whole week at home with the wife. It gives her a break from stuff around the house, too, since I'm here to take care of a few things while I'm at home. By day 7, she's ready for me to go to work -- It works out well for us.

Also on day one when does it typically start?

It depends on the airplane you're assigned. I'm in the Citation Excel, which has Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday start days. They're on a two week cycle, so while I start my workday on a Tuesday, somebody else is starting his week off on that same Tuesday. The start days and schedules are fixed for an entire year, so if you don't want to bid off of a schedule, you'll know your days on and off for the next year, which is really nice. (Training days may slide a work week a few days one way or another, though, but that's only a few events out of the year.)

Do you have to go in the night before to be in position for day one, meaning an early show so you have to commute in the night before therefore commuting on an off day?

Absolutely not. You'll be briefed for a start time on your first day by 6pm the day prior. It won't change. As the company has to pay hourly overtime for any hours before 8am on your first day, my start times are normally at or after 8, unless there's a real need for me to be out early. I can count on one hand the number of before-8 reports I've had in the past year.

If you volunteer to go in a day early or stay a day longer, that's an extra work day, and would pay an extra day-and-a-half's pay -- $468.75 for a newhire. But that's only if you volunteer, and then only if the company has a need for you and takes you up on it.

One last question on your layovers do you typically have time to workout, go for a run, grab a beer (not at the same time)?

Normally yes, although with a minimum turn of 10 hours, sometimes the beer is out. :bawling: Most of our hotels have decent workout rooms and such, so you won't even have to leave the hotel if you don't want to.

Most of my turns average around 12 hours -- some longer, some shorter. Usually during each tour, I'll get at least one longer overnight, which helps me rest and recuperate for the week. (And if I get really worn down, I'll make the fatigue call and get 14+ hours to get back up to speed.)

Hope that helps!

 

[RadioClash]

Thanks for the information. I appreciate it.

 

[gunfyter]

Im 121 Captain at "no name" airline. I have 3500 total time, and My Dad and My Brother are at Continental....The recuiter says Im on the short list at CAL, But times have changed and I have 40 years to give to a Company. I would live in Houston and be based at home if I went to CAL.

My question is......since I have an "in" at CAL, should I try my luck and go to the Major, or go to NETJETS, because all I hear are great things about that place. Im 24 and have a long career, and I never want to commute ever again. thanks

Crystal ball says ... 5-7 yr upgrade @ NJ. Whats it look like @ Continental? Which one will most likely still be around in 40 years?

I would probably go with first one to hire me ... leaning toward Continental. If you go to NJA keep your stuff in with Continental but once you make PIC you will probably not want to go back to 121. In the mean time you see what NJA is like while building seniority.

Keep in mind there are many here furloughed from Majors who are refusing recall .... deciding to stay put.

 

[CRJ200pilot]

Thanks for the quick response. CAL upgrade depends. I met a guy who upgraded after 3 years but he will be on RSV in Newark for 10-12 years.

 

[kman]

My log book program averages my overnights to about 12.1 hours. And 12.5 hours of duty. Also I m on the slave ship(Excel) so im sure that doesn't help. As far as working out, I used to work out all of the time. Now Im lucky to get one workout in a tour. As far as getting a beer, its a 12hr rule here so, its almost always cutting it close. I find myself a bit more tired here, than my previous 121 job it usually takes me two days to recover and catch up on things i need to do.

CRJ its up to you, I would interview at both and see who offers u the job first. But if you have a choice than It would depend on the type of flying, flexibility, QOL, aircraft and schedules you want to do. Your still young enough to recover from a furlough, and with being 24, your QOL and money down the road will probably be much nicer at CAL than NJ's. With that being said nja does have a lot to offer as well, flexible basing, free insurance, a bit more stability, better QOL and money off the bat, nice hotels, free airline and hotel stays. If it were me I would go to CAL. If it were me and I had offers at both, and I was willing to leave at one of Cal's bases for the rest of my life. I would go to Cal. There is a bit more money in it right now and the QOL will only get better down the road. When I turn 50, I have 23 yr at NJA ( If I stay ), I will still be on the 7n7(hopefully on the falcon) still doing the 7n7 averaging about 12.8 days a duty a month. 23 years at CAL should be able to offer day trips(nice to be home ever night to see the kids grow) , more money, nice long overnights, and greater QOL on and off the road. Its a crapshoot, good luck to ya, both companies have a lot to offer.

 

[igneousy2]

Just a couple of suggestions...

First - How long it's taking people to upgrade today has very little to do with how long it will take you to upgrade. For Continental in particular, the upgrades are going relatively junior now because they didn't hire for awhile...then they went through rapid growth. These early hires are benefiting from that, however, they have been hiring A LOT of pilots recently. For a quick upgrade I think a better bet would be Delta. In any case the age 65 change just added at least 2-3 years to whatever upgrade a major airline pilot could have expected.

second...Twenty years is NOT senior at ANY major airline. Not to the extent that some of you are speaking. To be "senior" at a major airline at twenty years it means you have given up something significant...undesireable base, stayed FO, junior equipment, etc.

If you think you are going to hold an 8 day off line as a Captain with 20 years seniority at a major US airline you are dreaming.

I also think some of you are overemphasizing the end game dollars. With proper money management it is far more beneficial to make $100K a year when you are 28 then it is to make $200K a year when you are 55. Every $10,000 earned today is $109,000 in 30 years at an 8% ROI.

Good luck

 

[blueskies8]

Not to get too far off the subject but I have to ask this question as it has been raised by some of my friends as of late. These friends of mine think that I should think twice about leaving my company and going to NJA as it would be a pay cut and (most likely) a downgrade or parallel move in equipment with long upgrade times. I disagree with them and don't care about the pay cut, what equipment I am flying or what seat I am in. I just want a good QOL, a schedule and a stable career. Granted, I haven't been offered a job yet but before I go through the process I thought that I should get all the insight that I can. I have and still do view NetJets as a career company and goal.

To give you some info on my situation I am currently flying 91/135 PIC on a large cabin jet with a base salary around 100k. The owner of the company seems to be in it for the long run has some serious financial backing. I like the people I fly with, the trips that we do and the clients that we fly including the owner. NJA just seems to have more to offer and to look forward to. I know most of you probably think that I have answered my own question here but I am curious as to what all of your thoughts are. My mind is already made up so your comments won't sway my decision but because I don't see a lot of people taking large pay cuts and giving up hard to get corporate gigs to go to NJA I have to ask, what would you do in my situation?

Thanks for the replies in advance.

Blueskies8

 

[kman]

second...Twenty years is NOT senior at ANY major airline. Not to the extent that some of you are speaking. To be "senior" at a major airline at twenty years it means you have given up something significant...undesireable base, stayed FO, junior equipment, etc.

If you think you are going to hold an 8 day off line as a Captain with 20 years seniority at a major US airline you are dreaming.

I also think some of you are overemphasizing the end game dollars. With proper money management it is far more beneficial to make $100K a year when you are 28 then it is to make $200K a year when you are 55. Every $10,000 earned today is $109,000 in 30 years at an 8% ROI.

Good luck

First of all, I never said 20 years was a senior captain position. It is not junior though. Family friend with 16yrs at SWA holds day trips in BWI (His and my Hometown) He works about 9-11 days a month and makes about 180 ish if I remember right. Isn't SWA min days off 15-17 days for the most junior person on the list?

So your saying 20 year Captain on 73 or 320 any of the legacy carriers(ex. USair maybe) won't be able to hold a premium schedule? I think your very wrong. What Legacy do you or have worked for?

Any of the legacy carriers FO poistion top out at year 12 pay about (777 or 747) 135k ish and with 20 years of seniority you will pretty much be able to hold any schedule you want. Year 14 at NJA is 137k working a 7n7. So your telling me a 20 year captain(737 etc) or Widebody FO wont be able to hold a better schedule than 15 days off a month?

Like I said in previous post, I am only targeting airlines with bases I am willing to leave in. And the previous guy lives in HOU, his hometown, are you telling him he won't have a greater QOL and schedule at CAL?

And as far as money goes, how much is your happiness worth? If your not happy at the job ur at, should you stay just because its a good job? I'm willing to roll the dice and see what happens.

PS. Maybe u should check the schedules and pa.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=107349

 

[kman]

igne, do u work for alaska? might be y u think 20 years doesn't get u too much. anyways looks like ur not exactly happy where ur at so maybe you should be looking for another job as well.

 

[igneousy2]

igne, do u work for alaska? might be y u think 20 years doesn't get u too much. anyways looks like ur not exactly happy where ur at so maybe you should be looking for another job as well.

At Alaska, If you only have 20 years you are bidding in the bottom 1/3 of line holders as a Captain in Seattle.

But before you shurg it off and say...well that's just Alaska...I won't go to Alaska...keep in mind that when these 20 year guys/gals were hired, the upgrade at Alaska was less than 5 years.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that you have to look at it on a deeper level than simply "upgrade right now is X" or 20 years gets you ____ at whatever airline which is what a lot of pilots seem to do.

Anyway, good luck in whatever you decide.