Netjets TA falls apart!!!

[zman300]

I have been an avid reader but not a poster for quite some time but will ask about this.

After everything that has happened over the last year (T/A, rejected T/A, new MEC, new T/A, reneged T/A, new T/A), what else could happen? We voted in the SU to take this to a new level and got what most see as a good step in the right direction and now I hear some say they will vote no, the T/A is in jeopardy, etc, I just don't get it...

In a perfect scenario, what were you and other guys looking for? I am pretty happy with what I see. Am I ecstatic? No. Happy? Yeah. This T/A actually surpassed my expectations (still not where they could be). Where would we be if this had been put out in 2001? A lot further along then we are now! Where will we be in 5-10 more years? A lot further along (hopefully) then we should be on November 21st.

I also believe that present F/O's kind of messed themselves over by not bidding CPT sooner. Many, many bids went by without ANYONE bidding CPT a few years ago. Our MEC is the one to blame if you don't think they got what they deserved (pay raise). Most F/O's have been sitting in the right seat making the same amount of money as me and not having to make half as many decisions, put their name in the logbook or sign the 135 releases. I have also flown with guys that were senior to me in the right seat and making more money. Where is the justice in that?

Just my $.02 from where I sit.

Not too surprising you don't post much here: you, sir, are a refreshing voice of REASON, civility, and level-headed thinking. Which means you don't fit in with the typical posters here. Why can't everyone figure out what you have? Thank you for your honest, sensible perspective

Boys, it's been a fun week, but I'm outta here! See y'all in a month...maybe...

 

[JustInfo]

Nice to see more good words toward the bypass FO's. I have planned on voting yes all along, in spite of not getting any kind of raise out of the deal. However, I am getting to the point where I am sick of being called an idiot etc because I chose to be with my family and make more money flying less days as an FO. Now I am told I was not "stepping up" or "taking on responsibility?" My responsibilities are great and very dear to me, and they have nothing to do with Netjets. I need 7 on 7 off to be where I feel it is more important, at home!

Guess my priorities were wrong, I should have jumped up and bid the first upgrade I found to help out George and the boys, or else they will just hire off the street captains (That was the threat you know) and how well did that go.

Sorry if people haate flying with an FO that has a better schedule and maybe makes more $$$, I didn't know I was supposed to be stepping up and helping out in the current situation!

 

[Sctt@NJA]

The only time bypass FOs got on my nerves was when they flaunted their good deal or when they acted like they thought they were entitled for it to continue into the next contract.

Why did it bug me? Because I am one of the people that gave them what they had. How? By upgrading early. By the way..... You are welcome.

 

[buttercup]

Nice to see more good words toward the bypass FO's. I have planned on voting yes all along, in spite of not getting any kind of raise out of the deal. However, I am getting to the point where I am sick of being called an idiot etc because I chose to be with my family and make more money flying less days as an FO. Now I am told I was not "stepping up" or "taking on responsibility?" My responsibilities are great and very dear to me, and they have nothing to do with Netjets. I need 7 on 7 off to be where I feel it is more important, at home!

Guess my priorities were wrong, I should have jumped up and bid the first upgrade I found to help out George and the boys, or else they will just hire off the street captains (That was the threat you know) and how well did that go.

Sorry if people haate flying with an FO that has a better schedule and maybe makes more $$$, I didn't know I was supposed to be stepping up and helping out in the current situation!

You did nothing wrong you did everything right!! Family comes first!! Just use this an an example for the future.. There is no loyalty in aviation, pilots are whores!! They talk big game about 125k year 5 and 100 percent retro!! If they sold themselves out by accepting far less than 100 percent retro (Their own money), what makes you think they'd care about you. Apparently they don't care about the future new hires either!! All that talk about STFD was just that, all talk!! In the end guys just couldn't fathom the idea of not being Mr. Belvadeers bit*h flying him around in a jet for less than they deserve!!

 

[Sctt@NJA]

HAHAHA It comes as a surprise that we would prefer a 50% raise over losing our jobs??? Huh??

 

[Wawd NJA]

Nice to see more good words toward the bypass FO's. I have planned on voting yes all along, in spite of not getting any kind of raise out of the deal. However, I am getting to the point where I am sick of being called an idiot etc because I chose to be with my family and make more money flying less days as an FO. Now I am told I was not "stepping up" or "taking on responsibility?" My responsibilities are great and very dear to me, and they have nothing to do with Netjets. I need 7 on 7 off to be where I feel it is more important, at home!

Guess my priorities were wrong, I should have jumped up and bid the first upgrade I found to help out George and the boys, or else they will just hire off the street captains (That was the threat you know) and how well did that go.

Sorry if people haate flying with an FO that has a better schedule and maybe makes more $$$, I didn't know I was supposed to be stepping up and helping out in the current situation!

I was not bad mouthing the bypass F/O's, I said that they kind of messed themselves over by not upgrading. I feel the wages that you have been earning over this same time were decent for an F/O (note: not NBAA wages), not great. However, I thought the pay for what I was doing in the left seat was much too low for what I was having to do. Then to have the guy in the right seat make more money on occasion was over the top... I don't think you need to upgrade until you are 100% ready, we already have too many weak captains that upgraded too soon.

I am glad you took care of your family during that time because they are by far the most important thing. I fly to live, I don't live to fly. You will still get your 7&7 schedule and keep your same pay, nothing there has changed. You will also get a chance to upgrade in the near future as it seems you may be senior enough. It sounds like you weren't one of the egotistical F/O's out there that I heard many times state how they were waiting for an APU airplane, one that goes .92 Mach or has an F/A.

This wasn't made out to be a slam on F/O's, just that they got the short end of the stick (read present wages) and some did it to themselves. I wrote this post asking why suddenly there are some dissenters in the ranks after two weeks of hearing almost nothing but positive comments both here and the road.

 

[buttercup]

HAHAHA It comes as a surprise that we would prefer a 50% raise over losing our jobs??? Huh??

Yep..Fearful about losing your job figures.. You have a job that's great!! But until you're willing to walk away it will never be a career!!

 

[Semore Butts]

I sleep just fine

I'm a bypass F.O.

Seatlocked for 2 years, at 15 months I deployed .

When I returned there was a grass roots effort to get F.O.'s on bypass pay.

I get fly from home out of the contract until I can upgrade. Thats fine.

I didn't know there was such animosity among the Cpts regarding the F.O.'s on bypass? I didn't know I was doing anything wrong.

I didn't need Cpt time, or have to be in charge. I enjoy the fleet I'm in and intended to stay ther until I could upgrade.

If that bothered them why did the upgrade? They could have stayed in the right seat and got bypass pay?

Turns out it worked to there advantage in the end. Good for them..

But give me a break? I keep hearing people say they don't feel sorry for bypass F.O.'s? That bugs me?

I'm not asking for anybodys pity.

I just hope this has a "ripple effect" accross the industry.

All that aside, the next time you see a Netjets crew, maybe you should say "thanks for your courage and sacrifice for our industry".

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Yep..Fearful about losing your job figures.. You have a job that's great!! But until you're willing to walk away it will never be a career!!

Fearful? Not hardly. If you can look at this deal and still say it would be better to STFD than take this deal... I think thats crazy talk.

 

[JustInfo]

I'm sorry Sctt, I didn't realize you were upgrading just to help me out. Let me be the first to thank you for your selfless, non ego-driven act of upgrading so others could benefit. In return I am voting yes on the TA just to help you and all the other PIC's out, and for that you are welcome.....


(I hope the sarcasm comes across in text.....)