NetJets Places Order For 96 New Aircraft

[FLYLOW22]

Thank you NJ capts for keeping the FOs on food stamps.

NJ Captains got F/Os off of $27,000 per year wages. Those WERE food stamp wages.

 

[Fozzy]

NJA is a Union shop.

IT IS CALLED SENIORITY! Captains leave the Cat 1 fleets for bigger and better money. That in turn opens spots for FO's to make Captain. THAT IS HOW IT WORKS.
Yes FO pay sucks. But do not cry to me that I am not letting you jump ahead when the next bid comes out. If I see something I want to bid and I can hold it, then I will.

 

[Fozzy]

I completely agree with you. I am so tired of seeing captains being awarded captain bids. There should be a longer seat lock such as 3 years for aircraft type. This would help slow down pilots from channging aircraft to collect type ratings, it would reduce training costs, and increase the amount of upgrades. The problem with NJA is that when captains bid captain slots, it creates openings in those aircraft the captains are bidding out of, yet the company does not immidately produce a bid to fill those slots.

" yet the company does not immidately produce a bid to fill those slots"

What so you have to wait a few months?!? It is seniority. The spots will open.

If the company wants the savings you describe then they can negotiate for it in 2010.

 

[CA1900]

Put APUs in everything, and I guarantee that'll cut down on the cross-bidding.

 

[skiandsurf]

IT IS CALLED SENIORITY! Captains leave the Cat 1 fleets for bigger and better money. That in turn opens spots for FO's to make Captain. THAT IS HOW IT WORKS.
Yes FO pay sucks. But do not cry to me that I am not letting you jump ahead when the next bid comes out. If I see something I want to bid and I can hold it, then I will.

I understand seniority and payscales, but if I am not mistaken, a 800xp and a G200 pay the same amount of money. As does a soveriegn and the ten.

I have no problem with captains bidding out of the 400 and ultras, those are "entry level" planes....although the pay doesnt change, I can understand "wanting" to gt out of these.

I came over to NJs after the contract, but I was under the impression that some of the senior FOs were bypassing the upgrade, and allowing the junior guys to upgrade, therefore allowing as many guys to make captains pay. Now that mentallity is gone. Its more like "screw the newhires", they have domiciles and will be FOs forever.

If you think RTS wanted to divide the group, he is getting help from the help of the "type collectors".

 

[CA1900]

I understand seniority and payscales, but if I am not mistaken, a 800xp and a G200 pay the same amount of money.

You are mistaken. The G200 is a Class 3 airplane, while an 800XP is a Class 2. After year 10, the Class 3 is worth more money. If I were getting close to that point, I'd take the first G200 bid I could for the higher pay.

You are correct about the Sovereign and the X; they're both Class 2 airplanes.

I came over to NJs after the contract, but I was under the impression that some of the senior FOs were bypassing the upgrade, and allowing the junior guys to upgrade, therefore allowing as many guys to make captains pay. Now that mentallity is gone.

Complete non-sequitur. It isn't a question of mentality -- it's a question of the contract. Under the old one as I understand it, if anyone junior to you held a captain position (which was possible because of equipment locks), you received captain bypass pay. That's no longer the case. Take a look at 5.3(a)(iii) -- if an FO receiving captain bypass pay didn't put a standing bid in for a captain slot, he lost captain's pay under the new contract.

 

[Fozzy]

That was something completely different. The bypass thing was something from the fight for the CBA 2005. It was something that was NEVER intended to be a lasting thing. Many made a sacrifice to help the whole. It worked. It was also a way to stick it to the company.

But it was never intended to thrown in the faces of the more senior guys down the road. I am sorry if you don't like it. But if someone wants to bid Captain in every Cat 1 or 2 airplane then that it is their right. That is what seniority is all about. If you want to see how life is like where there is no seniority, just look to CS.

Hang in there. Your time will come.

 

[skiandsurf]

Hang in there. Your time will come.

With 20 captain bids per month x 12 months=240 captains bids/yr.

At the rate of 5 "true upgrades"/month= 4 yrs for 240 "true upgrades".

I am hanging in there, and I know my time will come. The question is when???

I am just trying to let the guys looking to come here, it is probably too late. With the seniority list hitting 2700 pilots, I think it will take a looooong time for these upgrades (junior captains are 1830s).

 

[pilotpat]

(Thinking positive here)

When I get my call and pass my interview for NJA, I will be taking a little better than a $30K/year paycut. Sounds kind of dumb initially, but when you look at the long haul, I'd need to be paid over $90K/year right now to equal 10 years at NJA (not going to happen in my 135 world). Maybe a little tight for the first few years, but adapt and have the foresight and you'll feel a lot better.

 

[pilotpat]

Double post...