Netjets Globals

[acaTerry]

Acaterry,

You're wasting your breath. These guys have been told over and over again that staffing is done by the number of aircraft, not the number of duty days. Some simply refuse to listen to it. It is your contractual right to bid the 18 day. It wouldn't matter if all of us went on the 15 day, there would still be no recalls until after the CBA is signed.

Sorry guys, but that is the simple truth of it.

Prince Harry can't be gone soon enough. And then hopefully these guys will get their recall, to a better NJA than the one they had before.
In the meantime, I'll just have to accept that being on the 18 day makes me a bad guy despite my participation in the voluntary measures and the donations in both cash and Atlantic Bucks to the furloughee's Christmas Fund each year.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Prince Harry can't be gone soon enough. And then hopefully these guys will get their recall, to a better NJA than the one they had before.
In the meantime, I'll just have to accept that being on the 18 day makes me a bad guy despite my participation in the voluntary measures and the donations in both cash and Atlantic Bucks to the furloughees.

I think myself and most of the other outcasts realize that airframes will dictate when we come back(amongst other things). From my highly scientific analysis on the dark side of the union page, is that the majority are worried about not being sold down the river with modifications to the existing recall rights language in a new contract. As long as that portion doesn't get jammed up our arse, then by all means fly the 18 day schedule and provide a wage you bargained for years back. It doesn't matter what I say or what anyone else on here says, you guys gotta do what you gotta do, whether I like it or not. The unity or lack therof thing for furloughed guys and gals is laughable, but I'm not gonna hold the 18 day thing against you. Extended days are another story...........

 

[OPECJet]

So much of that post reeks of "pay your dues, kid".

No one asked for an explanation of why you were working the 18 day. No one here knew you were on it. No one here really cared one way or another. YOU decided to come on here and say you were. You gained the negative replies you were seeking and you're lashing out. Feel better? I hope so. You obviously needed an outlet.

Fisch, you're right about staffing. To a point. We know the company would operate as close to 5 pilots per frame as they possibly can. Those 5 pilots per frame translate into certain number of available work days. When the number of available work days required is above what is available, recalls would be required. The 18 day schedule increases the number of available work days with fewer pilots required. This is likely built into the 5 per frame requirement, but I think even the company knows it needs 6 plus per frame. In that respect 18 day participants ABSOLUTELY effect the overall number of furloughed pilots. NJASAP has repeatedly stated to us (semi-privately) they will not address the active group on the issue for fear of being sued.

 

[fischman]

So much of that post reeks of "pay your dues, kid".

No one asked for an explanation of why you were working the 18 day. No one here knew you were on it. No one here really cared one way or another. YOU decided to come on here and say you were. You gained the negative replies you were seeking and you're lashing out. Feel better? I hope so. You obviously needed an outlet.

Fisch, you're right about staffing. To a point. We know the company would operate as close to 5 pilots per frame as they possibly can. Those 5 pilots per frame translate into certain number of available work days. When the number of available work days required is above what is available, recalls would be required. The 18 day schedule increases the number of available work days with fewer pilots required. This is likely built into the 5 per frame requirement, but I think even the company knows it needs 6 plus per frame. In that respect 18 day participants ABSOLUTELY effect the overall number of furloughed pilots. NJASAP has repeatedly stated to us (semi-privately) they will not address the active group on the issue for fear of being sued.

Again, days aren't the deciding staffing level. Let me be perfectly clear... The staffing is dependants on airframes, not days. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT SCHEDULE A PERSON BIDS. More planes=more pilots. Less planes=less pilots. No CBA=no recalls.

The CBA isn't going to be signed for years. YEARS.

These are facts. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[acaTerry]

So much of that post reeks of "pay your dues, kid".

No one asked for an explanation of why you were working the 18 day. No one here knew you were on it. No one here really cared one way or another. YOU decided to come on here and say you were. You gained the negative replies you were seeking and you're lashing out. Feel better? I hope so. You obviously needed an outlet.

OPEC,
You can see it all over the Frac forum threads that people are casting blame on those on the 18 day schedule for the furloughs. And if you go back a few pages, you will see that these two posters in particular had it coming from me by their personal attacks. This stemmed from where I simply implied, after reading yet another post that the pilots on the 18 day schedule are the reason for the furloughees not getting called back, that there are pilots on that schedule by necessity. Then they got like little kids throwing sand. And they got from my post what they asked for: a well deserved chewing out.
I'm not a "pay your dues, kid" kind of guy by any stretch. But what I can not stand is someone who gets a bump in the road and blames everyone else.
Hell, I feel pretty bad having written letters and recommended so many guys that are now furloughed. And you can ask them (I'll even PM you a way to contact some of them) yourself, I am FAR from the kind of guy to say "tough sh1t, pay your dues".
I just can't stand guys like those particular two posters setting on personal attacks on someone who they know nothing about, nor have any reason to be mad at. I challenge you to go back to page 18 or 19, which is where I entered the thread, and find ANYTHING that lashes out before these two asked for it. By nature, I'm not someone to jump on someones case. But if they ask for it, they get it.

 

[imacdog]

Personal attack? No - just pointing out that you aren't the only person that gets the pleasure of dealing with life's issues. A lot of anger from you there Terry, maybe going back to the Encore would be beneficial to your well-being?

But hey, 40% of the pilot group on the 18-day schedule, apparentely everyone's working their butt off, of course that doesn't affect furloughs. Sounds like new math to me, but it is certainly one's contractual right to do so. And extend.

 

[hopalong]

OPEC,
You can see it all over the Frac forum threads that people are casting blame on those on the 18 day schedule for the furloughs. And if you go back a few pages, you will see that these two posters in particular had it coming from me by their personal attacks. This stemmed from where I simply implied, after reading yet another post that the pilots on the 18 day schedule are the reason for the furloughees not getting called back, that there are pilots on that schedule by necessity. Then they got like little kids throwing sand. And they got from my post what they asked for: a well deserved chewing out.
I'm not a "pay your dues, kid" kind of guy by any stretch. But what I can not stand is someone who gets a bump in the road and blames everyone else.
Hell, I feel pretty bad having written letters and recommended so many guys that are now furloughed. And you can ask them (I'll even PM you a way to contact some of them) yourself, I am FAR from the kind of guy to say "tough sh1t, pay your dues".


I just can't stand guys like those particular two posters setting on personal attacks on someone who they know nothing about, nor have any reason to be mad at. I challenge you to go back to page 18 or 19, which is where I entered the thread, and find ANYTHING that lashes out before these two asked for it. By nature, I'm not someone to jump on someones case. But if they ask for it, they get it.

acaterry,

Wow! You have your plate full! God bless you for helping your family and providing for your extended family. I only wish that the furloughed knew how united we are becoming and how we are fighting for the contract of our lives, and the future for them if they decide to return.

 

[acaTerry]

Personal attack? No - just pointing out that you aren't the only person that gets the pleasure of dealing with life's issues.

Yes, personal attack. "Said the guy is who is not furloughed" sounds pretty personal.

A lot of anger from you there Terry, maybe going back to the Encore would be beneficial to your well-being?

No anger. Simply showing you that people do what they have to do. You are way out of line blaming your fellow pilots for things that the company has done. And even though I've only been in the Gulfstream 7 months, I'm quite happy in it and am no hurry to return to the Encore.

But hey, 40% of the pilot group on the 18-day schedule, apparentely everyone's working their butt off, of course that doesn't affect furloughs. Sounds like new math to me, but it is certainly one's contractual right to do so. And extend.

No new math. It's the company formula of airframes and pilots. Period. Fisch made that pretty clear (not bad for a Red Sox fan).

My replies are above in red. Whatever, I give up. Stay mad at the world if it makes you feel better. Your enemy is the EMT, not us.

 

[acaTerry]

acaterry,

Wow! You have your plate full! God bless you for helping your family and providing for your extended family. I only wish that the furloughed knew how united we are becoming and how we are fighting for the contract of our lives, and the future for them if they decide to return.

God has blessed me. It just took me too long to realize it. A lot has happened in the past 6 months that changed my POV on a lot of things.
And I will say that nothing will get a "yes" vote from me until it makes a better job for those guys to come back to...whenever that is. I wish they knew that we DO care.

 

[OPECJet]

Again, days aren't the deciding staffing level. Let me be perfectly clear... The staffing is dependants on airframes, not days. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT SCHEDULE A PERSON BIDS. More planes=more pilots. Less planes=less pilots. No CBA=no recalls.

The CBA isn't going to be signed for years. YEARS.

These are facts. Don't shoot the messenger.

No messenger shooting. You're partially right. Common sense says that staffing per frame is only part of the equation. Absolute staffing is driven by pilots per frame, available work days, and owner demand. If this weren't true, the company would not have been begging for scope relief.

OPEC,
You can see it all over the Frac forum threads that people are casting blame on those on the 18 day schedule for the furloughs. And if you go back a few pages, you will see that these two posters in particular had it coming from me by their personal attacks. This stemmed from where I simply implied, after reading yet another post that the pilots on the 18 day schedule are the reason for the furloughees not getting called back, that there are pilots on that schedule by necessity. Then they got like little kids throwing sand. And they got from my post what they asked for: a well deserved chewing out.
I'm not a "pay your dues, kid" kind of guy by any stretch. But what I can not stand is someone who gets a bump in the road and blames everyone else.
Hell, I feel pretty bad having written letters and recommended so many guys that are now furloughed. And you can ask them (I'll even PM you a way to contact some of them) yourself, I am FAR from the kind of guy to say "tough sh1t, pay your dues".
I just can't stand guys like those particular two posters setting on personal attacks on someone who they know nothing about, nor have any reason to be mad at. I challenge you to go back to page 18 or 19, which is where I entered the thread, and find ANYTHING that lashes out before these two asked for it. By nature, I'm not someone to jump on someones case. But if they ask for it, they get it.

I'll buy that. I've seen plenty of posts from you that reflect what I quoted.

I can understand your sentiment of the 18 day attack. Believe me when I tell you the anger is directed toward voluntary extended days, EBoard members on the 18 day, and the lack of comms from the union. Those are always the hot topics on the banished board since NJASAP decided to drive a wedge.

acaterry,

Wow! You have your plate full! God bless you for helping your family and providing for your extended family. I only wish that the furloughed knew how united we are becoming and how we are fighting for the contract of our lives, and the future for them if they decide to return.

Amen. I wish you the best.

Hopalong, we'll never get the message. We have no way of receiving it unless we run across a NJA pilot courtesy of our "union". I rarely see an airport these days but have run across four NJA pilots, all with encouraging things to say. Other furloughed guys have run across NJA pilots who didn't even realize there were guys on furlough. One of us was in a van with a crusty bastard complaining there weren't enough extended days available.

Until the union addresses the wedge between active and furloughed more of this garbage will happen. I figure LOTS of it will happen when / if we come back for a little while anyway. Thank NJASAP for it.