Netjets Globals

[acaTerry]

Any of you furloughees feel free to PM me anytime with questions or whatever. It may take me a few days to get back to you, but I will get back to you.
Remember the eBoard decisions don't necessarily reflect what we'd like to see happening (such as being locked up "outside").
And that goes for imacdog and RJBum. I don't hold anything against you guys. Frustration can cloud anyone.

 

[fischman]

No messenger shooting. You're partially right.

If by "partially right" you mean "well informed and knowing what I'm talking about" then, I agree.

Perhaps I wasn't clear???

Staffing is completely dependant on airframes, not duty days. That is the fact. It isn't partial. It is truth. Recalls WILL NOT HAPPEN until we increase the number of airframes and the CBA is signed. Bottom line. IT WOULD NOT MATTER IF EVERY PILOT WAS ON THE 15 DAY or the 18 day. It doesn't matter. There will not be recalls until the CBA is signed and we increase airframes.

Am I communicating?

 

[Xcorporate]

And while everybody is debating the staffing calculus Netjets has become irrelevant and an undesirable place to work.

I don't fault anybody for capitalizing and making what they can when they can. The tough love BS and salt in the wound lessons on staffing are getting boring.

Sorry but that's the simple truth, don't shoot the messenger.......

 

[imacdog]

So undesirable that attrition has spiked to 1.5% in the last year.

 

[BentOver]

Where they gonna go right now? Hiring hasn't exactly gone through the roof at legacy carriers.

I'd bet that the resumes will be at least going out when the time comes. Getting hired is a whole other story. Competition will be stiff.

 

[acaTerry]

Where they gonna go right now? Hiring hasn't exactly gone through the roof at legacy carriers.

I'd bet that the resumes will be at least going out when the time comes. Getting hired is a whole other story. Competition will be stiff.

You're very right about that. However, the opportunities are finally happening again. And as long as it isn't upped to 75 y/o, there will be a looooootttt of openings and opportunities.

 

[OPECJet]

If by "partially right" you mean "well informed and knowing what I'm talking about" then, I agree.

Perhaps I wasn't clear???

Staffing is completely dependant on airframes, not duty days. That is the fact. It isn't partial. It is truth. Recalls WILL NOT HAPPEN until we increase the number of airframes and the CBA is signed. Bottom line. IT WOULD NOT MATTER IF EVERY PILOT WAS ON THE 15 DAY or the 18 day. It doesn't matter. There will not be recalls until the CBA is signed and we increase airframes.

Am I communicating?

You're communicating, and you're only half right. If you're 100% correct, explain to me why 1.) the company hasn't furloughed down to 5 pilots per frame, and 2.) why the company wanted scope relief? Could it be owner demand and pilot availability DOES have something to do with overall pilot staffing?

No argument that recalls will only happen if and when airframes are added. You're dead wrong on staffing being completely driven by airframes, however.

Am I communicating?

 

[hopalong]

Amen. I wish you the best.

Hopalong, we'll never get the message. We have no way of receiving it unless we run across a NJA pilot courtesy of our "union". I rarely see an airport these days but have run across four NJA pilots, all with encouraging things to say. Other furloughed guys have run across NJA pilots who didn't even realize there were guys on furlough. One of us was in a van with a crusty bastard complaining there weren't enough extended days available.

Until the union addresses the wedge between active and furloughed more of this garbage will happen. I figure LOTS of it will happen when / if we come back for a little while anyway. Thank NJASAP for it.[/QUOTE]



OPECJET,

I understand all of your frustrations. When the talks of furloughs first happened I was just as nervous as you. I am not far from the bottom of the list and still worry at times if I will be right along side you.

Let me shed some light as to what we have been experiencing at njasap these days. We are fully engaging our pilot group with an education campaign in regards to our worth as aviators on our message boards and on the road.
And regrettably, some are not aware of our worth. We continue to educate our fellow brothers and sisters on the road and truly believe this will come to fruition. The good news for you is that the company wants this contract signed quickly. This sense of urgency speaks volumes to me. I think sales will increase dramatically very quickly and at a steady pace. I do not want to give anyone of you false hope because we can not predict the future. But if I were a betting man, I would think that recalls would start happening once the CBA is signed.

When you all were employed here, there was a PIC vs SIC mentality. This is no longer the case. We are more united in our solidarity and our anger has been at the EMT and not with each other. We will not sell each other out. I have complete confidence that our PICs will only vote for what is best for the SICs and we will do the same for them. Please know that we have that same regard for you, our fellow brothers that have had the misfortune of bad timing. You have struggled and shouldered the financial burden, the disappointments, the frustration, and the heart ache. We take notice and please know we are with you, not against you. We will stand and fight for you!

Please tell us what we can do to advocate for you. Please tell us if you are still seeking employment and what we can do to help. As aviators, we are a small community and we need to look out for one another. Many prayers go out to you and your families and we wish and are excited for the days that you will return...

 

[jetlag7]

You're communicating, and you're only half right. If you're 100% correct, explain to me why 1.) the company hasn't furloughed down to 5 pilots per frame, and 2.) why the company wanted scope relief? Could it be owner demand and pilot availability DOES have something to do with overall pilot staffing?

No argument that recalls will only happen if and when airframes are added. You're dead wrong on staffing being completely driven by airframes, however.

Am I communicating?

1. 5 pilots per airframe is the contractual minimum we negotiated in our CBA -- it's an arbitrary number -- they've never taken staffing down to this level because the actual number to maintain the operation is much higher...

2. If you recall, the request for scope relief happened back in 2010 before we started flying like
gang-busters again. (Remember the infamous March 31st deadline DS gave us before his "fall from grace?")

To me, this indicates their desire for scope relief has never been motivated by demand.....

From where I'm sitting, both of you are 100% correct ....

Demand drives the need for more airframes which in turn, require additional pilots to operate.

Presently however, neither is happening at a rate sufficient to keep up with demand.... We are literally flying the doors off of the jets at the moment, retirement schedules for older airframes have been delayed, the "shadow" group of displacement pilots who were getting paid to sit at home are ALL back to work, yet pilots are having to fatigue with greater and greater frequency due to the higher workload....

The wheels are coming off the bus and we aren't even in the busy season yet....

Because of this, I do have to disagree with both of you on one major point -- regardless of how it may weaken the company bargaining position, I don't believe recalls will wait until a successor CBA is ratified.

 

[acaTerry]

Oh wow, I meant 67 not 75.

 

[jetlag7]

I understand all of your frustrations. When the talks of furloughs first happened I was just as nervous as you. I am not far from the bottom of the list and still worry at times if I will be right along side you.

Let me shed some light as to what we have been experiencing at njasap these days. We are fully engaging our pilot group with an education campaign in regards to our worth as aviators on our message boards and on the road.
And regrettably, some are not aware of our worth. We continue to educate our fellow brothers and sisters on the road and truly believe this will come to fruition. The good news for you is that the company wants this contract signed quickly. This sense of urgency speaks volumes to me. I think sales will increase dramatically very quickly and at a steady pace. I do not want to give anyone of you false hope because we can not predict the future. But if I were a betting man, I would think that recalls would start happening once the CBA is signed.

When you all were employed here, there was a PIC vs SIC mentality. This is no longer the case. We are more united in our solidarity and our anger has been at the EMT and not with each other. We will not sell each other out. I have complete confidence that our PICs will only vote for what is best for the SICs and we will do the same for them. Please know that we have that same regard for you, our fellow brothers that have had the misfortune of bad timing. You have struggled and shouldered the financial burden, the disappointments, the frustration, and the heart ache. We take notice and please know we are with you, not against you. We will stand and fight for you!

Please tell us what we can do to advocate for you. Please tell us if you are still seeking employment and what we can do to help. As aviators, we are a small community and we need to look out for one another. Many prayers go out to you and your families and we wish and are excited for the days that you will return...

+1 :thumbup:

 

[fischman]

You're communicating, and you're only half right. If you're 100% correct, explain to me why 1.) the company hasn't furloughed down to 5 pilots per frame, and 2.) why the company wanted scope relief? Could it be owner demand and pilot availability DOES have something to do with overall pilot staffing?

No argument that recalls will only happen if and when airframes are added. You're dead wrong on staffing being completely driven by airframes, however.

Am I communicating?

It's okay to be wrong OPECjet

 

[Rubber Ducky]

"That's Life"

Prince Harry can't be gone soon enough. And then hopefully these guys will get their recall, to a better NJA than the one they had before.
In the meantime, I'll just have to accept that being on the 18 day makes me a bad guy despite my participation in the voluntary measures and the donations in both cash and Atlantic Bucks to the furloughee's Christmas Fund each year.

Terry,

Sorry to hear about your father and all that has happened in your life. What you don't seem to realize is that all of us have similar and different issues in our lives too. Those that are furloughed don't have three days if bereavement pay while attending our funerals, don't have those hospital bills paid while their wives are bleeding and their families who have terminal illnesses don't ask them for money to help because they already know they don't have any. Don't get me wrong, your efforts to help the 495 (less now that several have since passed away), will never be forgotten and always appreciated. The voluntary measures would only have helped if they were continued after the furlough. Instead, many jumped right back in the 18 day. God bless you and your family, you will be in our prayers.

 

[CA1900]

The voluntary measures would only have helped if they were continued after the furlough.

As a point of fact, David Sokol canceled the voluntary measures as one of his first acts when he got here. The pilots didn't have the opportunity to continue them.

 

[imacdog]

Right, that way he could furlough as many as he did.

Fisch asserting that he's right, which is standard fare for Fisch, doesn't necessarily make him so.