Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

NetJets Fires Vice President - Tip of the Iceberg

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
B

Badboy

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Posts
7
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2015-04-30/netjets-vice-president-fired-anti-pilot-union-posts

As I look back through the posts here, I have to wonder if there really could be anyone that doesn't understand that the recall, elections and subsequent sdp awards were all part of this effort?

Does anyone believe the effort was from a single individual? Can't wait to see who else this leads to. This is only the beginning.

I wouldn't want to be all alone on an island without any financial backing for my defense fund. And yet one finds himself exactly in that situation. I feel so bad for him. Or not!
 
 
Mooneymite said:
it's going to be tough to deny that "others" were involved, or had knowlege of the activities of this supposed "lone wolf" VP.
Click to expand...

Honestly, do you think it's even possible for anyone to believes this anymore, let alone a judge? Of course there was collusion, even up to the highest levels.

The only real question is how well did they insulate the higher levels.

I hope you score something meaty on this.
 
flex*wife said:
The only real question is how well did they insulate the higher levels.
Click to expand...

I think it's significant that the management team went from, "We're just playing the negotiating game where all is fair." to "This was the act of one rogue VP who acted without our knowledge."

Sounds like someone at corporate legal gave them a dose of reality and scared them into making a sacrificial offering....a worthless VP.

I think the subponaed emails would prove very interesting. I bet they're trying to figure out how Hillary covered her tracks!
 
Mooneymite said:
I think it's significant that the management team went from, "We're just playing the negotiating game where all is fair." to "This was the act of one rogue VP who acted without our knowledge."

Sounds like someone at corporate legal gave them a dose of reality and scared them into making a sacrificial offering....a worthless VP.

I think the subponaed emails would prove very interesting. I bet they're trying to figure out how Hillary covered her tracks!
Click to expand...

What will be really interesting is if that VP talks and says which executives were briefed on this campaign.

Jordan has a long history of offering severance packages to departing employees that are tied to a confidentiality agreement. If they talk then they have to repay the money.

He also implemented a corporate policy of systematically destroying emails and records after a certain amount of time.
 
Last edited:
FamilyGuy said:
He also implemented a corporate policy of systematically destroying emails and records after a certain amount of time.
Click to expand...

Yup. It's what is known in government circles as "plausible deniability."

Hansell is up to his eyeballs in this. The question is whether the union lawyers can tie him to it with tangible evidence.
 
I'll lay 10:1 odds that the fall guy ends up with a nice golden parachute and/or a nice cushy job at another BH company.
 
FamilyGuy said:
What will be really interesting is if that VP talks and says which executives were briefed on this campaign.

Jordan has a long history of offering severance packages to departing employees that are tied to a confidentiality agreement. If they talk then they have to repay the money.

He also implemented a corporate policy of systematically destroying emails and records after a certain amount of time.
Click to expand...

Regardless of management's ability to destroy evidence, it is pretty obvious it has been publicly caught in a "less than truthful" statement.

I wonder if the management team has to watch all those videos on ethics, or if thiose are just for the "little people"?
 
The union will run out of money before anyone is held accountable though. This is about as far as it will go. We are not a national union and it seems that nobody else from "Clue" really has a clue!!
 
Hawkered said:
The union will run out of money before anyone is held accountable though. This is about as far as it will go. We are not a national union and it seems that nobody else from "Clue" really has a clue!!
Click to expand...

Am I hearing some regret for dumping the teamsters?
 
hammer2 said:
Am I hearing some regret for dumping the teamsters?
Click to expand...

Not from me.

We'll FIND enough money to see this one through to the end. Even if it takes a special assessment.

The discovery phase alone will be EPIC.
 
gutshotdraw said:
Not from me.

We'll FIND enough money to see this one through to the end. Even if it takes a special assessment.

The discovery phase alone will be EPIC.
Click to expand...

No we won't.

They're lining up more hostages now and we'll blow our load on trying to get them back and then we'll settle on a new contract and be made to drop all legal action as a condition. We're blowing through a bunch of dough as it is though.

The ******************** house lawyers should be writing best sellers with their fantastic stories. To the ones that gave your passwords. You're idiots!
 
Last edited:
gutshotdraw said:
Not from me.

We'll FIND enough money to see this one through to the end. Even if it takes a special assessment.

The discovery phase alone will be EPIC.
Click to expand...

Fantasy land. You've obviously never heard of Lois Lerner, Hillary Clinton or half of the people on Walk Street that are still employed after bilking millions.
 
I was not one of the ones clamoring to dump the IBT back in '06. While the in-house union has been quite popular with the membership and we haven't had to send any money to the IBT, we are now part of "dis-organized labor". The in-house union seems to be the rage in our industry today, but we have damaged the cohesion of organized labor.

The chickens may come home to roost if we actually end up striking. We're going to be all by ourselves and all those "low down" teamsters will be delivering truck loads of stuff to NetJets without a worry about our picket lines.

Yes, the IBT may have been an "unnecessary expense" for all those years, but it would be comforting to have the IBT and its financial clout on our side should we strike.
 
Mooney, did you not see the fruits of the Herculean efforts by our union in OMA yesterday? Over 400 employees from all four labor groups, some retired guys, and even an elderly guy with a walker put in many miles. In 15 years I have never seen such a well organized event, not to mention the unity displayed by hundreds of our colleagues, many who traveled half way across the country with kids in tow.

PS: IBT did not even have a clue we secured an ammended CBA in '07, and they never even dropped a dime to help us through the '05 battle.
 
Last edited:
Pervis said:
Mooney, did you not see the fruits of the Herculean efforts by our union in OMA yesterday? Over 400 employees from all four labor groups, some retired guys, and even an elderly guy with a walker put in many miles. In 15 years I have never seen such a well organized event, not to mention the unity displayed by hundreds of our colleagues, many who traveled half way across the country with kids in tow.

PS: IBT did not even have a clue we secured an ammended CBA in '07, and they never even dropped a dime to help us through the '05 battle.
Click to expand...

Actually I did see the picketing up close and personal. I am in no way disparaging the efforts of the in-house union. I am merely stating the obvious: we are not allied with any national labor organization. We are "going it alone". Certainly this is cheaper in the short run, but without a national organization behind us, we will be very vulnerable if/when the strike/lockout comes.

Omaha would have happened just as it did whether we were allied, or not. Neither IBT (nor ALPA, were we allied with it) would have lifted a finger to interfere, help, direct or run the picketing. That is not the function of a national organization.

As long as there is no strike/lock-out, the in-house union will be just fine, but should the big war come, we will not have anyone but ourselves in our corner.
 
I understand your point and agree to a certain extent. However, if we do strike, based upon the recent 98% vote of no confidence, very few will scab, and there is not enough lift in the charter world to make a dent in our operations. Travel Management is no longer their savior, and our owners will file tons of lawsuits should we strand them more than we do now. It's not like another carrier will cover like the majors do. We have far more leverage than you think.
 
I'm still 100% in favor of our decision to leave the Teamsters, and not just because it's "cheaper." For our specific group, I also believe it to be more effective in the long run for us to be in complete control of our union. Yes, we had a hiccup, and we worked through it to become stronger than before.

I'm totally confident we'll get a contract worthy of our experience and skill, and that we'll be here long after Hansell and his team have been shown the door.
 
Pervis said:
I understand your point and agree to a certain extent. However, if we do strike, based upon the recent 98% vote of no confidence, very few will scab, and there is not enough lift in the charter world to make a dent in our operations. Travel Management is no longer their savior, and our owners will file tons of lawsuits should we strand them more than we do now. It's not like another carrier will cover like the majors do. We have far more leverage than you think.
Click to expand...

I have no idea how much labor strife you've seen "up close and personal", but when the strike comes, you will be shocked/amazed at who crosses the line.

I sincerely hope there is no strike/lockout because our union has done/is doing a very poor job of preparing the membership for the realities of a strike/lockout. From day one we should all have been building a personal war chest and making provisions for buying our own medical insurance. When a man's family is hungry he is much more prone to cross. Those pilots who have family members with pre-existing medical conditions will be in a tough situation.

Union loyalty, 90% no confidence votes and chest-beating are all fine and dandy before the strike, but solid personal finance is what will carry the day. Don't take my word for it, ask around and find out how many of your fellow pilots can go six months without a paycheck/insurance.....

I think you will be surprised that many (most?) are deeply in debt with house/car payments and haven't even thought about making provisions for medical coverage. This is not the way to go to war. We've had two years to prepare and time is getting short.

I sincerely hope you are correct in your assessment, but I fear you are wrong.
 
Newsflash!!

We're sinking financially, and fast. Running around filing lawsuits against a behemoth might be great for a sound bite in the media, but should not be viewed as a very sound investment strategy.

We've got problems coming our way. Forget about buying a building.
 
Pervis said:
I understand your point and agree to a certain extent. However, if we do strike, based upon the recent 98% vote of no confidence, very few will scab, and there is not enough lift in the charter world to make a dent in our operations. Travel Management is no longer their savior, and our owners will file tons of lawsuits should we strand them more than we do now. It's not like another carrier will cover like the majors do. We have far more leverage than you think.
Click to expand...


Hawkered said:
Newsflash!!

We're sinking financially, and fast. Running around filing lawsuits against a behemoth might be great for a sound bite in the media, but should not be viewed as a very sound investment strategy.

We've got problems coming our way. Forget about buying a building.
Click to expand...


Two very interesting viewpoints. I suspect both sides are unprepared for a strike. Which means it will likely come down to who has the most resolve.

Pervis is right in his contention that there is not enough excess lift out there to cover NetJets demand. NJ is having a tough time right now getting enough lift to cover the sell offs, which are a fraction of the total NJ demand. If a strike does occur, NJ would be lucky to find enough lift to cover 25% of the demand, and at an exorbitant cost. The EMT may claim they are prepared for all outcomes, but I doubt it, based on how badly they botched the Signature Flight Support negotiations. When push came to shove, Signature put them on retail for one day before NJ came running back to the table.

That said, if the pilots have failed to plan appropriately for a strike and can't pay their bills for an extended period of time, then that gives the company a decided advantage, one which Jordan won't hesitate to exploit.
 
Was hawkered in Omaha?
 
gutshotdraw said:
Not from me.



We'll FIND enough money to see this one through to the end. Even if it takes a special assessment.



The discovery phase alone will be EPIC.
Click to expand...


We will see how well they payed him to go out the door. If it wasn't enough he might have an axe to grind.

In the end he will be under oath and this is federal law he's messed with.

The yoga will be great in prison. They are going to show him a lot more positions.
 
Best money spent in the past year was filing the law suit. It's the first time the EMT has had to answer to a higher authority, and the first time they had to fire one of their own, all while professing innocence. LOL it's beautiful
 
ghostrider64 said:
Best money spent in the past year was filing the law suit. It's the first time the EMT has had to answer to a higher authority, and the first time they had to fire one of their own, all while professing innocence. LOL it's beautiful
Click to expand...

Exactamundo.
 
Until recently, I was employed by a major charter company, one that you currently use to supply extra lift. We discussed this very situation, quite often in fact.

There are always a$$holes, but not one of the pilots I discussed this with will fly struck work. They will put their jobs on the line to avoid doing those flights. There are two pilots in each cockpit, and basically, with proper publicity, few aircraft would fly with your customers. At the very least, there would be serious delays, but in most cases the aircraft would just not fly.

The Problem:

Obviously, it would be easy for that company's management team to disguise NetJets trips. Believe, they will if they can. So, it will be necessary for you guys to figure out how to get the word out on just which are 'struck flights.' Sounds tough to me, but we certainly ID our customers, so maybe it could be done that way.

Don't forget this piece of your little puzzle. You have more support than you know, and if you let the rest of the pilot population help, you will find more people in your corner than you ever dreamed of.
 
wacoflyr said:
Until recently, I was employed by a major charter company, one that you currently use to supply extra lift. We discussed this very situation, quite often in fact.

There are always a$$holes, but not one of the pilots I discussed this with will fly struck work. They will put their jobs on the line to avoid doing those flights. There are two pilots in each cockpit, and basically, with proper publicity, few aircraft would fly with your customers. At the very least, there would be serious delays, but in most cases the aircraft would just not fly.

The Problem:

Obviously, it would be easy for that company's management team to disguise NetJets trips. Believe, they will if they can. So, it will be necessary for you guys to figure out how to get the word out on just which are 'struck flights.' Sounds tough to me, but we certainly ID our customers, so maybe it could be done that way.

Don't forget this piece of your little puzzle. You have more support than you know, and if you let the rest of the pilot population help, you will find more people in your corner than you ever dreamed of.
Click to expand...

I akin it to flying for an owner and then you're flying his buddies as much as you're flying him. You hear his buddy is paying the owner to use his plane.

You know it's happening but there isn't much you can do.

I'm not sure if it makes sense but that's the way I've looked at it.
 
df99a4abc711c4b420f19518a57fc120.jpg
 
Last edited:

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom