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NetJets Crash
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olderpilot
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IP076
That's right, you're....
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I think the problem there is we're trying to define a word, "Crash", that is not located in any book!Patmack18 said:
Death, as some people put it, does not determine Accident/Incident status. If a mechanic is taxing an airplane around and runs into a terminal and kills himself, or people in the terminal, it is still an incident. Reason being, he never boarded the aircraft with "Intent to Fly"
To be defined as an accident, the event needs to take place from the time "People board an airplane with intent to fly until the last person has gotten off the airplane"
No FAR aim handy, but I'll try, To be defined as an accident the event must occur as described above and at least one of the following:
Serious Injury - Hospitilization for more than 48 hrs within 7 days of the event
Fatal Injury - Dies from event injuries within 30 days of event
Substantial Damage - damage to the basic structure of an airplane that requires major repairs. (Alters the flying characteristics/ability/dynamics of the aircraft)
Causes more than 25K damage to property/people/things on the ground
Well, I havent look at 830 in a while, but I think I got most of it.....flame away if something is wrong!
IP076
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Here it is.....
[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 49, Volume 6]
[Revised as of October 1, 2004]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 49CFR830.2]
[Page 177-178]
TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION
CHAPTER VIII--NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD
PART 830_NOTIFICATION AND REPORTING OF AIRCRAFT ACCIDENTS OR INCIDENTS
Subpart A_General
Sec. 830.2 Definitions.
As used in this part the following words or phrases are defined as
follows:
Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation
of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the
aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have
disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or
in which the aircraft receives substantial damage.
Civil aircraft means any aircraft other than a public aircraft.
Fatal injury means any injury which results in death within 30 days
of the accident.
Incident means an occurrence other than an accident, associated with
the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety
of operations.
Operator means any person who causes or authorizes the operation of
an aircraft, such as the owner, lessee, or bailee of an aircraft.
Public aircraft means an aircraft used only for the United States
Government, or an aircraft owned and operated (except for commercial
purposes) or exclusively leased for at least 90 continuous days by a
government other
[[Page 178]]
than the United States Government, including a State, the District of
Columbia, a territory or possession of the United States, or a political
subdivision of that government. ``Public aircraft'' does not include a
government-owned aircraft transporting property for commercial purposes
and does not include a government-owned aircraft transporting passengers
other than: transporting (for other than commercial purposes)
crewmembers or other persons aboard the aircraft whose presence is
required to perform, or is associated with the performance of, a
governmental function such as firefighting, search and rescue, law
enforcement, aeronautical research, or biological or geological resource
management; or transporting (for other than commercial purposes) persons
aboard the aircraft if the aircraft is operated by the Armed Forces or
an intelligence agency of the United States. Notwithstanding any
limitation relating to use of the aircraft for commercial purposes, an
aircraft shall be considered to be a public aircraft without regard to
whether it is operated by a unit of government on behalf of another unit
of government pursuant to a cost reimbursement agreement, if the unit of
government on whose behalf the operation is conducted certifies to the
Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration that the operation
was necessary to respond to a significant and imminent threat to life or
property (including natural resources) and that no service by a private
operator was reasonably available to meet the threat.
Serious injury means any injury which: (1) Requires hospitalization
for more than 48 hours, commencing within 7 days from the date of the
injury was received; (2) results in a fracture of any bone (except
simple fractures of fingers, toes, or nose); (3) causes severe
hemorrhages, nerve, muscle, or tendon damage; (4) involves any internal
organ; or (5) involves second- or third-degree burns, or any burns
affecting more than 5 percent of the body surface.
Substantial damage means damage or failure which adversely affects
the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the
aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement
of the affected component. Engine failure or damage limited to an engine
if only one engine fails or is damaged, bent fairings or cowling, dented
skin, small punctured holes in the skin or fabric, ground damage to
rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing gear, wheels, tires,
flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips are not considered
``substantial damage'' for the purpose of this part.
[53 FR 36982, Sept. 23, 1988, as amended at 60 FR 40112, Aug. 7, 1995]
That part about the 25k damage to objects other than the aircraft, I got mixed up, that requires immediate notification, but is not an accident.
If only the gear collapsed it looks like it may just be an incident.
[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 49, Volume 6]
[Revised as of October 1, 2004]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 49CFR830.2]
[Page 177-178]
TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION
CHAPTER VIII--NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD
PART 830_NOTIFICATION AND REPORTING OF AIRCRAFT ACCIDENTS OR INCIDENTS
Subpart A_General
Sec. 830.2 Definitions.
As used in this part the following words or phrases are defined as
follows:
Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation
of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the
aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have
disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or
in which the aircraft receives substantial damage.
Civil aircraft means any aircraft other than a public aircraft.
Fatal injury means any injury which results in death within 30 days
of the accident.
Incident means an occurrence other than an accident, associated with
the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety
of operations.
Operator means any person who causes or authorizes the operation of
an aircraft, such as the owner, lessee, or bailee of an aircraft.
Public aircraft means an aircraft used only for the United States
Government, or an aircraft owned and operated (except for commercial
purposes) or exclusively leased for at least 90 continuous days by a
government other
[[Page 178]]
than the United States Government, including a State, the District of
Columbia, a territory or possession of the United States, or a political
subdivision of that government. ``Public aircraft'' does not include a
government-owned aircraft transporting property for commercial purposes
and does not include a government-owned aircraft transporting passengers
other than: transporting (for other than commercial purposes)
crewmembers or other persons aboard the aircraft whose presence is
required to perform, or is associated with the performance of, a
governmental function such as firefighting, search and rescue, law
enforcement, aeronautical research, or biological or geological resource
management; or transporting (for other than commercial purposes) persons
aboard the aircraft if the aircraft is operated by the Armed Forces or
an intelligence agency of the United States. Notwithstanding any
limitation relating to use of the aircraft for commercial purposes, an
aircraft shall be considered to be a public aircraft without regard to
whether it is operated by a unit of government on behalf of another unit
of government pursuant to a cost reimbursement agreement, if the unit of
government on whose behalf the operation is conducted certifies to the
Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration that the operation
was necessary to respond to a significant and imminent threat to life or
property (including natural resources) and that no service by a private
operator was reasonably available to meet the threat.
Serious injury means any injury which: (1) Requires hospitalization
for more than 48 hours, commencing within 7 days from the date of the
injury was received; (2) results in a fracture of any bone (except
simple fractures of fingers, toes, or nose); (3) causes severe
hemorrhages, nerve, muscle, or tendon damage; (4) involves any internal
organ; or (5) involves second- or third-degree burns, or any burns
affecting more than 5 percent of the body surface.
Substantial damage means damage or failure which adversely affects
the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the
aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement
of the affected component. Engine failure or damage limited to an engine
if only one engine fails or is damaged, bent fairings or cowling, dented
skin, small punctured holes in the skin or fabric, ground damage to
rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing gear, wheels, tires,
flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips are not considered
``substantial damage'' for the purpose of this part.
[53 FR 36982, Sept. 23, 1988, as amended at 60 FR 40112, Aug. 7, 1995]
That part about the 25k damage to objects other than the aircraft, I got mixed up, that requires immediate notification, but is not an accident.
If only the gear collapsed it looks like it may just be an incident.
IP076
That's right, you're....
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- Jun 14, 2002
- Posts
- 436
Leave it to beech....
Lets see, there is a left seat and a right seat, lets stick the hot plate in the middle....
Most annoying thing with the baron in my opinion....
Hey, it wasnt that sidetracked, we were having a discussion on defining incident, accident, and crash!
I've seen some way worse sidetracked threads....
Lets see, there is a left seat and a right seat, lets stick the hot plate in the middle....
Most annoying thing with the baron in my opinion....
Hey, it wasnt that sidetracked, we were having a discussion on defining incident, accident, and crash!
I've seen some way worse sidetracked threads....
AA717driver
A simpler time...
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TC
Joe Jet Pilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2001
- Posts
- 139
IMHO the word "crash" seems like such a general term that it could potentially cover both incidents and accidents. It looks to me like we are splitting hairs here. If someone has the time to research this then they have more free time than I do. Maybe we should just be grateful that no one was injured. Just my $0.02.
Should Clear This Up
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 420QS Make/Model: GLF4 Description: G-1159C GULFSTREAM 4/4SP/SRA-4 (C-20F/G/
Date: 11/29/2004 Time: 1937
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Unknown
LOCATION
City: GYPSUM State: CO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
N420QS, NETJETS INC, GULFSTREAM G-IV ACFT, ON LANDING, NOSE GEAR COLLAPSED
AND ACFT SLID OFF THE RUNWAY, GYPSUM, CO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: VMC, SKC, CALM, A3013
Mobie
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 420QS Make/Model: GLF4 Description: G-1159C GULFSTREAM 4/4SP/SRA-4 (C-20F/G/
Date: 11/29/2004 Time: 1937
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Unknown
LOCATION
City: GYPSUM State: CO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
N420QS, NETJETS INC, GULFSTREAM G-IV ACFT, ON LANDING, NOSE GEAR COLLAPSED
AND ACFT SLID OFF THE RUNWAY, GYPSUM, CO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: VMC, SKC, CALM, A3013
Mobie
Ace-of-the-Base
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Turbinehead
One Dot High
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Weasil
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I have to agree with you Dogg. The problem is though that seeing the word "crash" in the subject line of a thread evokes a certain reaction. An airplane slamming into the side of a mountain at 280kts or something to that effect.N8Dogg said:
By the way, don't tell QANTAS that you think this was a crash because when they ran off the rwy in Thailand a few years back they were very careful to make sure it was written up as a taxiing incident (even though it was the landing roll), that way they made sure they still have a history of Zero accidents.
Weasil, I just did some research by calling some instructor buddies at Boeing. The aircraft incident involving Qantas was an overrun, but they didn't need to evacuate and the aircraft is flying again. It actually did aquaplane off the end of the runway in Bangkok and ended up in a golf course!!
Was Greg Norman on board? Was he late for his tee-time?
Was Greg Norman on board? Was he late for his tee-time?
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