Netjets combining?

[hydrarkt]

You are correct. I was showing the history. The criteria though, is the same.

 

[gutshotdraw]

One thing to consider:

In every previously successful single-carrier petition (and there are few), the pilot groups involved supported the petition because they felt they were being "whipsawed" by management and wanted a unified pilot list.

In this instance, that is decidely not the case. Whether it will have an impact on the NMB decision will not be known for another 3 years.

 

[gunfyter]

How will the decision go? No clue... but I'm putting my chips on Woodbridge.

And my chips are on 1108.

This week on the road... Two separate crews from 135 operators thanked us for getting the contract we did because it caused THEM to get a raise.

Yet others on this board live in denial ...

 

[gunfyter]

WOW.

You just highlighted why our Single carrier petition WILL be successful. Thanks H2

The facts supporting a single transportation system do not exist in this case. Each Carrier has its own management team that is in charge of day-to-day operations. While individuals in GJ’s management team previously worked for TSA, all of those individuals left their employment with TSA before joining GJ's. TSA was incorporated in Missouri while GJ's is an LLC formed in Delaware, and has no Board of Directors. While TSA and GJ's are commonly owned by TSH for Hulas Kanodia, he has no involvement in the management of either entity, and this factor alone will not support a finding of common control. [FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]See Allegheny Airlines, Inc., et al., [/FONT]29 NMB
- 36 33 NMB No. 9
160 (2002) (Board found no single transportation system despite the fact that the three carriers at issue were owned by the same holding company, noting each carrier’s separate control over its labor relations and operations).
Labor relations and personnel functions at GJ's and TSA are handled separately. Each Carrier has its own website which lists only its job openings, and each Carrier has its own employment applications and personnel forms. GJ's and TSA have separate terms and conditions of employment, different wage rates, and separate benefit plans. Further, the Carriers maintain separate seniority lists and employee rosters.
GJ's personnel recruit and interview applicants for GJ's positions; TSA personnel perform the same functions for TSA positions. Any work done by TSA or any other entity on GJ’s behalf is temporary and done pursuant to a contractual arrangement. GJ’s temporary outsourcing of some work functions is insufficient to support a single carrier finding. [FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]See Allegheny Airlines, Inc., et al.[/FONT], [FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]above[/FONT], at 171 (no single carrier finding even though one carrier performed customer service/ramp functions for the other carriers on a contractual basis).
GJ’s and TSA’s operations are clearly separate. While the Carriers both lease space in the same office building, employees for each Carrier have issued ID badges which only allow them access to their respective offices. Each Carrier has its own payroll and operational bank accounts, its own aircraft and operating and flight manuals, and its own training arrangements. While the paint scheme for each aircraft is determined by the regional partner, GJ's and TSA fleet are identified accordingly, pursuant to DOT regulations, by stickers on each aircraft. Further, all Pilots wear the "brass" of their employing Carrier, GJ's or TSA, when dressed in the standard uniform of their regional partner.

The above is from the recent TSA NMB Ruling. For those who don't think it matters where the paychecks come from I highlighted an interesting sentence...
...

Did TSA and GJ advertise their fleet on their website like this? http://www.netjets.com/Fleet/Aircraft_Details.asp

Access an entire fleet. Owning a NetJets share gives you the freedom to exchange among all 14 different jet types in our global fleet



​

"Access an entire fleet."

​

There has never been a clearer single carrier case.​

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Each Carrier has its own management team that is in charge of day-to-day operations.

As is the case with NJA/NJI.

TSA was incorporated in Missouri while GJ's is an LLC formed in Delaware,

NJA- Incorporated in Columbus, OH
NJI- Incorporated in Okatie, SC

While TSA and GJ's are commonly owned by TSH for Hulas Kanodia, he has no involvement in the management of either entity,

NJA/NJI owned by Berkshire Hathaway, Managed by Mr. Santulli

Labor relations and personnel functions at GJ's and TSA are handled separately.

Absolutely true for NJA/NJI

and each Carrier has its own employment applications and personnel forms.

True again.

GJ's and TSA have separate terms and conditions of employment, different wage rates, and separate benefit plans.

True again. (although the benefits are very similar).

Further, the Carriers maintain separate seniority lists and employee rosters.

True for NJA/NJI

While the Carriers both lease space in the same office building, employees for each Carrier have issued ID badges which only allow them access to their respective offices.

NJA/NJI share no office space together, and have seperate uniforms and ID badges

Each Carrier has its own payroll and operational bank accounts, its own aircraft and operating and flight manuals, and its own training arrangements.

True, true, and true



Wow. I have to say if these factors come into play during a hearing, things are looking good for NJI pilots. And dont forget, the NMB will ask for input from both pilot groups, regardless if one is not unionized.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Did TSA and GJ advertise their fleet on their website like this?

No, but American Airlines and USAir does. Because thats who they fly for!

NJA-NJI-NJE-NJME-EJM

Just fancy names for a code share agreement.

 

[CE750Driver]

How sad is it that 1108's Class 4 FO pay scale is so low compared to what NJI FO's are already making on the G's?

Whats the NJI start right now? 67, 70?

Comprimise? Please tell me so.

Please, lets not even compare the Captains wages, NJI captains would have to take a cut to reach the levels of the current 1108 contract.

Lets talk facts........

Any takers?

 

[Diesel]

dude ce750driver do you fly the X out of BDL because your numbers are way off.

 

[gunfyter]

No, but American Airlines and USAir does. Because thats who they fly for!

NJA-NJI-NJE-NJME-EJM

Just fancy names for a code share agreement.

I am convinced! I wonder why Woodbridge wants the petition delayed for three years...

Why don't you use your influence with Woodbridge to get the Single Carrier petition moved up to 2006 instead of 2008.

We could get it over with

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Gun,

If I called Woodbridge and asked to speak to the man, they’d say your Bill who? Look, I have absolutely no hostility towards you. Simply put, you believe in your union and the goal to combine our two groups through a legal petition; and I don’t.

I've always said that NJA pilots deserved a quality deal like fly from home, top tier pay and the rest. I just want to be left alone. I paid ALPA at 3 airlines, and served as an elected member of the ALPA Board of Directors for two years. And my BA is in Political Science; so it’s safe to say I know unions. More than anything I enjoy the freedom of picking up the Blueberry and calling my Chief Pilot when I need too. At NJI we don’t need a union to have a quality lifestyle. Yes, at other companies unions may be needed, at NJI they’re not. How can we be a whipsaw to you when we fly 1 aircraft type, and now with your new contract you have everything we have and more? You don’t see me screaming about what you have and what I don’t have.

I've said it before; my management team (from the group leader to Joe) is top notch. They care about me, my wife and our 3 chitlins. So don’t get mad when I say I don’t want the union on NJI property, and I wont get mad at you when you file the petition with the NMB. I truly and in all honesty hope this thing works out for everyone. I believe in NetJets, the concept, the owners, the whole thing. If we keep our heads on straight, we have the ability to OWN the fractional world. And that’s a good thing for NetJets Pilots.

It is what it is…