NetJets/Cessna

[FRACTRASH]

Yea, what Bogart said! We will loose some of our brothers and sisters, it just sucks. All our hearts go out to our good friends and their families. As for the company, we are retooling for the current market place and pushing the products that have worked for us over the last couple years. If the Fractional business is bad business for us, I'm sure it's true across the board. This process has many moving parts. It's yet been seen how our fractional owner will except the fact we will not continue their contracts. Hopefully they will continue in a different product offering. Until we see how they respond, we don't know the extent in the reduction in force. I'm sure this was a very difficult but necessary decision for all involved. Everyone in this line of work is by no means except from the need of business survival 101. God bless and good luck to all pilots. After all we all are brothers and sisters in this crazy business.

 

[BentOver]

No offense to CS and it's pilots. I feel bad for any jobs lost, but Humphry, NJA does own the market I'd say having about 70% market share, and being larger than the rest of the industry combined gives them a statistical advantage.

Making money or not is a simple solution by some accountants. They can make it look any way they want. But if CS isn't making money that doesn't mean no one is.. (Not saying NJA is making money, reports say YES but who really knows)

By all recent reports, CS was intending on growing, recalling pilots/hiring pilots. Something in the recent passed has changed their view on the business. Was it an order from NJA with a competition clause attached? Maybe.... Billions of dollars in a/c orders is probably worth more to Cessna than it's <80 a/c worth of owners and the revenue that it brings in over the next 5-10 years.

Then again maybe Cessna wanted out of the fractional market just out of pure business planning? Since '08 they had drastically changed their direction/name already. Maybe this was an extension of that?

Seeing how there have not been a whole lot of shares sold since 2007/08. Letting those 5 year contracts expire probably won't be a very long or teduious process. Anything signed in 2008 will expire next year.....

Hope the best for CS. But Humphy, don't blame NJA or the pilots for it. We are not salivating. Is it less competition? Sure. Do we feel maybe there is a chance your hardship may improve NJA pilots long term. Of course.... My family before yours.... But we also know that the recent CS decision may mean bad things for the whole industry if they don't see a future in it. We will have to wait and see what is said in any announcements.

 

[FRACTRASH]

No offense to CS and it's pilots. I feel bad for any jobs lost, but Humphry, NJA does own the market I'd say having about 70% market share, and being larger than the rest of the industry combined gives them a statistical advantage.

Making money or not is a simple solution by some accountants. They can make it look any way they want. But if CS isn't making money that doesn't mean no one is.. (Not saying NJA is making money, reports say YES but who really knows)

By all recent reports, CS was intending on growing, recalling pilots/hiring pilots. Something in the recent passed has changed their view on the business. Was it an order from NJA with a competition clause attached? Maybe.... Billions of dollars in a/c orders is probably worth more to Cessna than it's <80 a/c worth of owners and the revenue that it brings in over the next 5-10 years.

Then again maybe Cessna wanted out of the fractional market just out of pure business planning? Since '08 they had drastically changed their direction/name already. Maybe this was an extension of that?

Seeing how there have not been a whole lot of shares sold since 2007/08. Letting those 5 year contracts expire probably won't be a very long or teduious process. Anything signed in 2008 will expire next year.....

Hope the best for CS. But Humphy, don't blame NJA or the pilots for it. We are not salivating. Is it less competition? Sure. Do we feel maybe there is a chance your hardship may improve NJA pilots long term. Of course.... My family before yours.... But we also know that the recent CS decision may mean bad things for the whole industry if they don't see a future in it. We will have to wait and see what is said in any announcements.

Your an @ss. We are no threat to NJ and NJ are in no financial position to make a multi billion dollar deal with Cessna. I'm sure there is something behind the scenes with the large Global order. Maybe and just maybe it's worth a lot of money to sale of the Global orders. As for having 70% percent of the fractional business, I wish NJ had 100% of this loosing side of the business in the current market. This would be good for the rest of us. At one time it was good to be the 800# monkey. Now it's time to smaller, smarter and lean and mean. With this said, this was not to be an attack on NJ just on the ignorance of the one who post such uneducated BS!

 

[T-1GUY]

Between the AA pilots and potentially the CS pilots, I think the pilot shortage may have just gotten fixed...

They fixed the glitch

 

[barnyard]

Your an @ss. We are no threat to NJ and NJ are in no financial position to make a multi billion dollar deal with Cessna. I'm sure there is something behind the scenes with the large Global order. Maybe and just maybe it's worth a lot of money to sale of the Global orders. As for having 70% percent of the fractional business, I wish NJ had 100% of this loosing side of the business in the current market. This would be good for the rest of us. At one time it was good to be the 800# monkey. Now it's time to smaller, smarter and lean and mean. With this said, this was not to be an attack on NJ just on the ignorance of the one who post such uneducated BS!

When calling someone an A@$, it is important to be able to spell at least to a third grade level.

YOU LOSE YOUR JOB
SOMETHING THAT IS NOT TIGHT, IS LOOSE

J F'n C people.

 

[BentOver]

Your an @ss. We are no threat to NJ and NJ are in no financial position to make a multi billion dollar deal with Cessna. I'm sure there is something behind the scenes with the large Global order. Maybe and just maybe it's worth a lot of money to sale of the Global orders. As for having 70% percent of the fractional business, I wish NJ had 100% of this loosing side of the business in the current market. This would be good for the rest of us. At one time it was good to be the 800# monkey. Now it's time to smaller, smarter and lean and mean. With this said, this was not to be an attack on NJ just on the ignorance of the one who post such uneducated BS!

I was simply refuting Bogarts accusation that NJ people were foaming at the mouth..... and no, I never thought CS was a threat... As far as positions to make multi-billion dollar deals....

 

[x402]

I'm sorry if anyone at CA is losing their job. Good luck to you all.

 

[Humphreybogart]

Bent, some of you Netjet guys are foaming at the mouth, ie. Dad, and num nuts Njowner. Both of them are like vultures looking for CA carcasses so they can sink their rotten beaks into us. Well, we're not dead, and still going to be that thorn in the 800# gorillas side. You Netjet guys are the ones that start all the rumors. Maybe you all have just too much time on your hands?

 

[sshrae]

I think its safe to say for most of the furloughed pilots at NJA, we have moved on and are not thinking about coming back anymore. I can't speak for the people that are still there but now a 7 on 7 off schedule sounds like death. I can't imagine anybody who is furloughed 'licking their chops' that NJ might take over CA market share.

 

[Xcorporate]

Completely agree. Not to mention if this does create more flying for Netjets, they will just say the 350 additional furloughs they were planning will now be put on the back burner. I think for most of the 495, Netjets has lost its luster.....

I for one hope the CA guys/gals are able to find something quickly. Trust me once you lose your currency, nobody will want you. Not even the regionals.....

 

[rigger]

When was the Union voted in? How much time did they have to make any improvements? How long has management had time to...um...manage?

Also, unemployment is going DOWN. Today's numbers show unemployment as 8.3% in a 5th straight monthly decline.

Although neither points above will help conditions at CA, neither does setting blame on Unions, politics, or global warming.

ahhhhh your not serious are you? I mean you really really believe that unemployment went down? Sorry to pee in your wheaties but have you ever actually asked yourself 8.3 percent of what? Sure sounds good but let me educate you.....the number comes from the actual number of employable people age 18-65 who ARE WILLING, ABLE AND ARE NOW WORKING OR WANTING TO WORK! It does not count those people underemployed, people who have stopped working, or folks who have exhausted thier 99 week benefits and are not back working.......sooooooo ( drum roll) when you actually put these folks back into the mix we are at about 17.5%.....but wit there's more

If you want apples to apples lets only look at when bumbles, the unions, and global warming folks took over fixing the e onomy after that terrible Bush......we have 2.7 million less people working today then there was on that great hopieeee changeeee day we have added babies every day ( sure we lost some folks also) but net net we are adding people to the economy every month. So all this said just ad back in the folks who gave up and yep you guessed it unemployment went up once again last month.....real number with just the govts counted numbers 10.9% sorry to burst your bubble......but with our elected officials you gotta be smart enough to know a lie when you see it and find the facts....they suck but it does not make it untrue......lesson over

 

[rigger]

HERE'S MORE FOR YA ALSO, put far better then I can put it.
Record 1.2 Million People Fall Out Of Labor Force In One Month, Labor Force Participation Rate Tumbles To Fresh 30 Year Low

A month ago, we joked when we said that for Obama to get the unemployment rate to negative by election time, all he has to do is to crush the labor force participation rate to about 55%. Looks like the good folks at the BLS heard us: it appears that the people not in the labor force exploded by an unprecedented record 1.2 million. No, that's not a typo: 1.2 million people dropped out of the labor force in one month! So as the labor force increased from 153.9 million to 154.4 million, the non institutional population increased by 242.3 million meaning, those not in the labor force surged from 86.7 million to 87.9 million. Which means that the civilian labor force tumbled to a fresh 30 year low of 63.7% as the BLS is seriously planning on eliminating nearly half of the available labor pool from the unemployment calculation. As for the quality of jobs, as withholding taxes roll over Year over year, it can only mean that the US is replacing high paying FIRE jobs with low paying construction and manufacturing. So much for the improvement.

Chart below shows it all http://www.zerohedge.com/news/record...-rate-tumbles

 

[MississippiMud]

HERE'S MORE FOR YA ALSO, put far better then I can put it.
Record 1.2 Million People Fall Out Of Labor Force In One Month, Labor Force Participation Rate Tumbles To Fresh 30 Year Low

A month ago, we joked when we said that for Obama to get the unemployment rate to negative by election time, all he has to do is to crush the labor force participation rate to about 55%. Looks like the good folks at the BLS heard us: it appears that the people not in the labor force exploded by an unprecedented record 1.2 million. No, that's not a typo: 1.2 million people dropped out of the labor force in one month! So as the labor force increased from 153.9 million to 154.4 million, the non institutional population increased by 242.3 million meaning, those not in the labor force surged from 86.7 million to 87.9 million. Which means that the civilian labor force tumbled to a fresh 30 year low of 63.7% as the BLS is seriously planning on eliminating nearly half of the available labor pool from the unemployment calculation. As for the quality of jobs, as withholding taxes roll over Year over year, it can only mean that the US is replacing high paying FIRE jobs with low paying construction and manufacturing. So much for the improvement.

Chart below shows it all http://www.zerohedge.com/news/record...-rate-tumbles

Smartest guy on FI right here folks (or really close to it anyway..ha)! If Nixon heard a GDP number he didn't like, he would just tell them to change it. Look at factory orders, retail sales, commodity consumption and stock piles to get the real facts.

In October everything was crashing based on the data and 3 months later dogs and cats are walking in the park together. I've been active in the stock market since age 19 and I have never seen so much manipulation and intervention ( disclaimer, I'm only 33). I rarely hold stocks overnight because the results of such intervention is out of my league and I have no idea how it will turn out. Rome BC comes to mind.

 

[208starcheck]

the number comes from the actual number of employable people age 18-65 who ARE WILLING, ABLE AND ARE NOW WORKING OR WANTING TO WORK! It does not count those people underemployed, people who have stopped working, or folks who have exhausted thier 99 week benefits and are not back working.......sooooooo ( drum roll) when you actually put these folks back into the mix we are at about 17.5%....

This is all correct but................ those same rules also apply when the economy is good and we have 5% unemployment. Apples to apples.

FYI it is widely believed 3% or below is impossible because people change jobs and are unemployed for a short period or don't want to work.

Sounds like you watch Fox news. Your Fox news sound bits are easy to spot. Try education and removing politics, it's a more holistic approach.

 

[rigger]

This is all correct but................ those same rules also apply when the economy is good and we have 5% unemployment. Apples to apples.

FYI it is widely believed 3% or below is impossible because people change jobs and are unemployed for a short period or don't want to work.

Sounds like you watch Fox news. Your Fox news sound bits are easy to spot. Try education and removing politics, it's a more holistic approach.

LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS....ALWAYS TRYING TO TELL 1/2 you are correct but ( and why I put the second part that explains it far better than I) when at 5 % ( important part) there are no people dropped out of the workforce not counted like this data.......so not apples to apples hence why I fully documented the rest....listen I know facts suck.....they are numbers from the govt statistics not mine not flux news or NPR or any of them....they are what they are you may not like them but they are what's happening in America today.

Wake up folks, I don't give a damn about the party but if you are this easily manipulated your will surely be unprepared for the crap stom coming. Bumbles is killing America, like bush was killing America, like Clinton was killing America.....it's all the same. The only question is how fast we get there.....but you have to look at everything and trust nothing....1.2MILLION LESS PEOPLE EVEN LOOKING FOR WORK IS HIGHER UNEMPLOYMENT.....EVEN YOU KNOW IT TO BE TRUE BUT IT SUCKS AND IS SCARY......I HATE IT TOO BUT AT LEAST I ACKNOWLEGE IT AND UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE NEAR FUTURE.