NetJets' Captains need to get over themselves!

[G200_PILOT]

I don't get it. Do NJ pilots swap seats when it's your turn to be the PF? Or is this only when both pilots are type rated and 'CA qualified'? Everyone is type rated at NJ, correct?

I remember switching seats in the 1900 and CRJ. It was wierd, for the first two days. That's a cop out IMO. My right hand flies just as well as my left.

Besides the G200 fleet, the SIC is allowed to fly from the left seat on ferry legs. There are some hour requirements, but overall, they're allowed to do it. It also depends on the captain as you've been reading...

The G200 fleet is separate from these rules. In that fleet, the PIC stays in the lefts seat at all times unless two captains are flying together. At that point, I normally swap days. One day I'll sit in the left seat and fly all the legs and the next day, the other guy will fly all the legs from the left.

It's been said that management is looking to stop seat-swapping all together real soon. Meaning the SICs will only fly from the right seat. in most airplanes with rudder assisted steering, it's not an issue, but in a plane like the Hawker, swapping controls at 80 knots during takeoff (which is what we do) isn't the safest practice in the world.

 

[Diesel]

but in a plane like the Hawker, swapping controls at 80 knots during takeoff (which is what we do) isn't the safest practice in the world.

Why? The airlines do it fine day in and day out every day.

 

[glasspilot]

Why would you swap at 80 kts instead of, say before the takeoff roll commenced?

The only thing I can think of is the tiller. On every plane I've flown with a tiller the FO takes it before entering the runway on his legs and the CA just lines it up with the tiller with a "I'm off the tiller now" call when he's done. This all happens before the speed tape moves.

Maybe I'm missing something though.

 

[Diesel]

Depends on how much rudder authority you have and also if your nose gear has any steering authority through the rudder pedals.

The only thing we change at 60kts is the power is set and the Captain takes controls of the throttles and the keeps a hand on the tiller just in case for the abort.

All depends on the SOP's and the type of airplane.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Why would you swap at 80 kts instead of, say before the takeoff roll commenced?

The only thing I can think of is the tiller. On every plane I've flown with a tiller the FO takes it before entering the runway on his legs and the CA just lines it up with the tiller with a "I'm off the tiller now" call when he's done. This all happens before the speed tape moves.

Maybe I'm missing something though.

Have you ever tried to control an airplane from a complete stop with just the rudder pedals... when the airplane doesn't have any rudder-assisted steering? I'm sure some smartass will say that you can do it using the brakes. Great technique to use on takeoff...

 

[G200_PILOT]

Why? The airlines do it fine day in and day out every day.

I know you did not just say that...

Things such as aircraft systems, company SOP's, technique, and training go into those things. Things we don't do here. I'm sorry Diesel, but I was in the Hawker fleet for almost 8 years and we never covered transfer of controls in any training event. Although there was a common theme, everyone did it a bit different. Is that safe? I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong. We do it all the time in the 200 now but like I said, in that airplane it's not an issue. I was simply expressing my personal opinion of whether I thought it was safe or not to x'fer the controls in the Hawker at 80 knots. Sorry you didn't like my opinion. Nothing new...

 

[glasspilot]

yeah, I've never flown a plane that didn't have some steering from the rudder pedals. Makes sense now.

 

[Diesel]

I know you did not just say that...

Things such as aircraft systems, company SOP's, technique, and training go into those things. Things we don't do here. I'm sorry Diesel, but I was in the Hawker fleet for almost 8 years and we never covered transfer of controls in any training event. Although there was a common theme, everyone did it a bit different. Is that safe? I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong. We do it all the time in the 200 now but like I said, in that airplane it's not an issue. I was simply expressing my personal opinion of whether I thought it was safe or not to x'fer the controls in the Hawker at 80 knots. Sorry you didn't like my opinion. Nothing new...

Yup i can say it again if you want.

So we design a training event around it. Once again we aren't reinventing the wheel. Its been done time and time again. We aren't really that special.

If an airbus 380 can do it I'm sure we can figure out how to make another couple of airplanes do it.

I say we form a comittee on how to land and take off from the right seat.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Yup i can say it again if you want.

So we design a training event around it. Once again we aren't reinventing the wheel. Its been done time and time again. We aren't really that special.

If an airbus 380 can do it I'm sure we can figure out how to make another couple of airplanes do it.

I say we form a comittee on how to land and take off from the right seat.

You're the new chairman.


I wasn't saying we're special. I didn't say we needed to reinvent the wheel. I didn't say it was all that difficult. What I said was that I felt it wasn't the safest thing to do. If you want to debate about safety, that's fine but don't turn this into something it's not.

It's simple. The left seat pilot has his eyes outside while his left hand is working the tiller and his right hand is working the throttles. The right seat pilot has his head down the whole time paying attention to the instruments and calling out a ********************load of required callouts. At 80 knots, the right seat pilot calls out 80 knots and looks up and grabbs the throttles at the same moment that the left seat guy lets go of everything. One head looks up while the other head looks down. Hands are moving all over the place and so aren't eyeballs. How likely will something happen during that transfer? Most likely it will never happen, but we don't trust that theory do we? I don't.

 

[captain dad]

I had the flip side of this a couple months ago. A real condescending, know it all, captain with half my experience and half my type ratings tried to make me fly left seat on empty legs. She said, "you need to stay current for the sim." I graciously said, "no thanks." She went off on a ten minute blah blah blah fest claiming it was a safety issue, and that I was stupid to not fly left seat.

Now, I could kind of see her point, but having just returned from my six month check, and having 7000+ hrs of left seat time in multiple aircraft..., well let's just say I won't miss not flying with her anytime soon.