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Netjets call to action (another post from OneSky Crew Lounge)

Dirty Squirrel

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With the permission of the the author, I am posting this below...

NetJets Call to Action

NetJets' Union has joined the fight - On the side of the Teamsters they fired

NJASAP the NetJets Union recently sent out a call to action to their Union members urging them to talk to their FlexJet brethren and convince us to keep the IBT11O8 (NetJets Pilots and Affiliates Union). We have placed calls to representatives of NJASAP in an attempt to ensure they hear both sides of the story here at FlexJet but have been unable to reach them. While we continue to reach out to them let's take a look at their history with the Teamsters before we let them influence our decisions.

When the Teamsters were first ushered in at NetJets they were under the IBT Local 284 they quickly became disillusioned with this local since they did not focus specifically on the needs of the NetJets Pilots. to quote some of the NetJets pilots' own words from back then "Local 284 has been dismissive of the pilots and uninterested in tackling the complexities of the fractional business and the needs of the members. We want the IBT to charter an independent local for the pilots" There was a movement established by a group of over 100 pilots including Amy Vidovich to establish an independent Local for the pilots of NetJets that would focus specifically on their needs. After a long fought battle the IBT1108 was born.

Once they had a Union focused on their needs the Pilots of NetJets were able to work with their management team and craft an Industry Leading Contract. Soon however, there was trouble in paradise as the Teamsters 1108 began to lose focus on the needs of their NetJets members. Under the influence of National Level Teamsters Leadership the IBT1108 turned to organizing the Pilots of Flight Options. They morphed from the IBT Local 1108 into the IBT 1108 (NetJet Pilots and Associates Union). They went on to absorb Citation Shares. At the same time the Teamsters created an adversarial relationship between the Pilots and Management of NetJets. In short the IBT1108, under National Level guidance, became focused on growing the dues base of the Union and not on the Pilots it was supposed to represent.

Fed up with a Union that was focused more on the Teamsters needs than the needs of the Pilots, the Pilots of NetJets decided to fire the Teamsters. After a drawn out and expensive battle, NetJets pilots were finally able to fire the Teamsters and form an in house Union. The Teamsters even pointed at the expense of this fight to explain why we at FlexJet could never afford to establish our own In House Union. The Pilots of NetJets finally ended up with a Union run directly by their pilots for their pilots with no National Level middleman serving their own interests.

Now that the same Union who failed the NetJets Pilots so miserably is being voted out here at FlexJet guess who the IBT1108 has reached out to for help??? The very pilot group who fire them, NetJets. The Union at NetJets has sent out a call to action asking their pilots to intervene and encourage FlexJet pilots to keep the IBT1108. Why??? In their call to action the NetJets pilot Union stresses that FlexJet pilots voting out a Union could impact their own leverage and bargaining power with their NetJets management team. They point out that us becoming more competitive can negatively impact their pay. The action group behind this is led by none other than Amy Vadovich who was one of the driving forces behind forming a Union that focuses on the needs of the NetJets Pilots. Amy and others like her at NetJets are still being very loyal to those they work for and with at NetJets but this time it's at our expense.

We encourage all FlexJet pilots to reach out to NetJets Pilots and urge them to stay out of our internal business. We urge you to encourage NetJets Pilots to contact Amy and the rest of their leadership team and tell them to pick up the phone and get both sides of the story before they jump to the IBT 1108s defense. Please, ask our friends at NetJets why they want to keep us saddled with the very Union they fired. Why should we keep a Union that "has been dismissive of the pilots and uninterested in tackling the complexities of the fractional business and the needs of the members"? Is it because it gives NetJets and their Pilot group a market advantage they want to keep?
 

shanes123

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LMAO..That is so wrong on so many levels I don't have the time to pick apart every incorrect statement. Netjets pilots are true professionals thats something the Flex decert crew knows nothing about. You guys aren't qualified to service their Lavs
 

GooodLaaa

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With the permission of the the author, I am posting this below...

NetJets Call to Action

NetJets' Union has joined the fight - On the side of the Teamsters they fired

NJASAP the NetJets Union recently sent out a call to action to their Union members urging them to talk to their FlexJet brethren and convince us to keep the IBT11O8 (NetJets Pilots and Affiliates Union). We have placed calls to representatives of NJASAP in an attempt to ensure they hear both sides of the story here at FlexJet but have been unable to reach them. While we continue to reach out to them let's take a look at their history with the Teamsters before we let them influence our decisions.

When the Teamsters were first ushered in at NetJets they were under the IBT Local 284 they quickly became disillusioned with this local since they did not focus specifically on the needs of the NetJets Pilots. to quote some of the NetJets pilots' own words from back then "Local 284 has been dismissive of the pilots and uninterested in tackling the complexities of the fractional business and the needs of the members. We want the IBT to charter an independent local for the pilots" There was a movement established by a group of over 100 pilots including Amy Vidovich to establish an independent Local for the pilots of NetJets that would focus specifically on their needs. After a long fought battle the IBT1108 was born.

Once they had a Union focused on their needs the Pilots of NetJets were able to work with their management team and craft an Industry Leading Contract. Soon however, there was trouble in paradise as the Teamsters 1108 began to lose focus on the needs of their NetJets members. Under the influence of National Level Teamsters Leadership the IBT1108 turned to organizing the Pilots of Flight Options. They morphed from the IBT Local 1108 into the IBT 1108 (NetJet Pilots and Associates Union). They went on to absorb Citation Shares. At the same time the Teamsters created an adversarial relationship between the Pilots and Management of NetJets. In short the IBT1108, under National Level guidance, became focused on growing the dues base of the Union and not on the Pilots it was supposed to represent.

Fed up with a Union that was focused more on the Teamsters needs than the needs of the Pilots, the Pilots of NetJets decided to fire the Teamsters. After a drawn out and expensive battle, NetJets pilots were finally able to fire the Teamsters and form an in house Union. The Teamsters even pointed at the expense of this fight to explain why we at FlexJet could never afford to establish our own In House Union. The Pilots of NetJets finally ended up with a Union run directly by their pilots for their pilots with no National Level middleman serving their own interests.

Now that the same Union who failed the NetJets Pilots so miserably is being voted out here at FlexJet guess who the IBT1108 has reached out to for help??? The very pilot group who fire them, NetJets. The Union at NetJets has sent out a call to action asking their pilots to intervene and encourage FlexJet pilots to keep the IBT1108. Why??? In their call to action the NetJets pilot Union stresses that FlexJet pilots voting out a Union could impact their own leverage and bargaining power with their NetJets management team. They point out that us becoming more competitive can negatively impact their pay. The action group behind this is led by none other than Amy Vadovich who was one of the driving forces behind forming a Union that focuses on the needs of the NetJets Pilots. Amy and others like her at NetJets are still being very loyal to those they work for and with at NetJets but this time it's at our expense.

We encourage all FlexJet pilots to reach out to NetJets Pilots and urge them to stay out of our internal business. We urge you to encourage NetJets Pilots to contact Amy and the rest of their leadership team and tell them to pick up the phone and get both sides of the story before they jump to the IBT 1108s defense. Please, ask our friends at NetJets why they want to keep us saddled with the very Union they fired. Why should we keep a Union that "has been dismissive of the pilots and uninterested in tackling the complexities of the fractional business and the needs of the members"? Is it because it gives NetJets and their Pilot group a market advantage they want to keep?



Im curious to as who the representatives from NJASAP are that you “have reached out to” and haven’t heard from? I’m certain this is a false statement, cause they’d definitely speak with you! They would educate you on the reasons you need a Union in this industry. Especially in the position OneSky is in. Without a union you are at the mercy of Ken Ricci, you trust him to do the right thing? Bad move, ask your Challenger Flight attendants that were canned, out of any sort of seniority order. Not good enough, what about the pilots who he had “selected” for Red Label. Treatment of former Options/TA Pilots?!?! Cmon. I can’t believe for a second that if it isn’t In a collective bargaining agreement itll ever happen. Hell hes disregarding instructions from a federal judge at present. The guy isn’t going to take care of anyone out of the goodness of his heart.

If this is not a good enough reason just remember that no other pilot group has voted out a union in favor of no representation. While NJASAP was brought in instead of teamsters 1108, representation was not done away with. You think that all companies are not watching what y’all do closely?!?! Its because of experience and knowing how Aviation management with unchecked power and no contractual requirements will treat a pilot group. All pilot groups and and unions are watching a pilot group contemplating doing the unthinkable, in complete disbelief. Think about it....
 

Casa212

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Since many aren’t part of the discussion on the OneSky Crew Lounge, I’m pasting this below with permission from the author...

Letters from other Unions.

We have all recently seen letters from Airline Unions and Union associations talking about our efforts to decertify the IBT 1108 here at FlexJet. This is a continuation of the IBT 1108s heavy handed thuggish behavior. In an act of absolute desperation, Rick Dubinsky, the IBT1108 and the Teamsters have reached out to every single Union contact they have. They have given them misleading and outright false information to get them involved in our internal business here at FlexJet. By involving outside Unions the IBT1108 hopes to pressure and intimidate our pilot group into keeping the Teamsters. The IBT 1108 has also insinuated that pilots here at FlexJet will somehow be tainted for life if we vote them out. First they threatened our jobs here at FlexJet with certified letters telling us to pay dues or be terminated. Now they are attempting to threaten or very careers by dragging other airlines into our internal affairs. This is not because they feel it is what is best for our pilot group, it is because they are desperate to keep the pilots of FlexJet under their control and paying dues. I encourage everyone to read these letters from outside Unions and take note of the common threads they all share.

First, they state that the company and outside third party anti-union forces are the driving force behind this effort. This is a lie told to them by Rick Dubinsky and IBT1108 Union Leadership. The company has absolutely no involvement in this effort if they did the NMB would have shut us down immediately. The outside non-profit group was only contacted for free legal aid after we already had cards from well over 50% of our pilot group. Unlike the IBT1108, we don't have a pile of cash extorted from pilots to pay lawyers with so we found free legal counsel with an internet search. From the beginning, this effort was by our pilots for our pilots.

Second, every single one of these letters talks about preserving the bargaining power of Unions in the airline industry. They talk about how FlexJet going non Union could impact their leverage with their management. They talk about the need to preserve their hard won wages and work rules. -- What they don't address is the needs of our specific pilot group. They don't address the IBT1108s abject failure to address the wants, needs and concerns of our pilots here at FlexJet. Our concern is for the 577 pilots we fly with every single day here at FlexJet! ALPA, APA, SWAPA, EVEN NJASAP may do wonders for the pilots they represent but they are not our Unions! We have Rick Dubinsky and the IBT1108 and they have failed us, lied to us, ignored us, and yes threatened us.

Third, look at the Groups telling us to keep the Teamsters as our Union. American, SouthWest, United, and NetJets - not one of these highly paid pilot groups is represented by the Teamsters! Now look at those who have signed letters that are represented by the Teamsters - Allegiant, Republic, Atlas, Travel Management, our base FlexJet pay is higher than what they make. Those of us who flew for regionals often tolerated substandard pay and contracts at the urging of our affiliated Unions at the majors because we were hoping to make the step to the majors someday. We showed solidarity with the majors and excepted our lot because the regionals were just a stepping stone. FlexJet is not a stepping stone it's a career destination. We have pilots making more than many airlines already so why would we stick with substandard representation from a substandard Union at the urging of Airlines who operate in a totally different industry?

Last but not least, blacklists or scab lists. Not one of these letters from various airline unions mentions any such thing. Not one of the Union groups who has sent out these letters at the urging of Rick Dubinsky and the leadership of the IBT1108 has threatened our pilot group. We have reached out to several of these groups and all of them do say they support a Unionized workforce in the airline industry but not one has threatened Blacklisting. Not one pilot here at FlexJet has crossed a picket line so there are no scabs. These threats come from just one place - our very own IBT 1108! The very people who call us "brothers" and preach solidarity are threatening to destroy our careers. A small minority of our pilot group associated with the Teamsters is willing to stab people they have worked with for years in the back. Their loyalty is to themselves first their union second but absolutely not to their fellow pilots. The person who will place a fellow pilot's information on lists provided to outsiders, flight info.com, the VUH, or any other site in an attempt to hurt careers is not trying to build solidarity or speak for their fellow pilots. They are trying to bully, threaten, and intimidate people into compliance. If the Teamsters, Rick Dubinsky and our own IBT 1108 leadership truly had our pilots' interests at heart they would immediately and loudly denounce and quell this type of behavior. They won't. Those engaging in this type of behavior or condoning it are beneath contempt. Every decent person in the IBT 1108, please step up set the record straight and put a stop to this behavior! If not, the IBT 1008 and you own it.

Fly Safe.
Vote "No Representation"
Dirty Squirrel
As shanes123 puts it “get the facts straight “
First: Public statements of support by top management and Ricci himself, in writing supporting the decert group.
Second: apparently You are ok with leading a Union Busting company (CIE) into the aviation arena. By the way in Woelke’s own public video progression, 1st he denies outside involvement from a 3rd party, then he started using the line YOU just stated “was only contacted for free legal aid”.
Thanks for holding the door for them!
As for You don’t have a pile of cash it is because a lot of you don’t pay your dues. If You would have gotten together and showed some unity, stepped up and ran for election,you could have controlled the local.
Not one person in the decert group stepped up, instead You got played like a fiddle by a very good musician who has been doing this longer than You have known him.
As for Your second paragraph, Why do u think all these other Unions are sending letters, because they had a slow week and said let’s get together and see who we can bully? NO
It is because they understand the word Union and what Unity is.
You say 1108 lied to You, failed You, ignored us, and threatened us, and yet none of You had the balls to step up and run for any elected office. WHY?
 

imacdog

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Seems like a nice piece of union-busting work. Flex guys, I am not the world's biggest union lover, but I absolutely know that having a union is far, far better than the alternative. Vote wisely.
 

bluepost

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While the details, cost, drama, and timeline are wrong, that is pretty much an advertisement for keeping a union.

Throughout that history, NJA pilots were in control of their present and future. By retaining control, and unity, they were able to achieve significant improvements and stability. It has also provided stability in the marketplace as NJA wasn’t able to undercut the competition with salaries, which is exactly what you are advocating for. Even during the recession our pay, retirement, and insurance remained the same.

Again, you are transparent....you are claiming this is a fight against the Teamsters, when you are really in a fight against unions. It’s very simple, what can possibly be achieved without a union that can’t be achieved with one? Unions collect 1.5%, and half of you aren’t even paying dues. So what money will appear to make your job better and salaries higher? This isn’t the old Flex management, this is Ricci.
 

rajflyboy

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Squirrels eating from the bird feeders again

Teamsters may not be the best option but at least they provide representation if need be. You folks need to start your own union. That works needs to be near completed before de certification of the current union.

Unfortnately a union is a requirement in the fractional business. Without a contract how do you even know when your next day off from duty will be? How do you know when the company will send you home to your family? We have already seen the 14 day tours in this business.

Flexjet has good pilots/good people. Don’t talk smack on fellow pilots.
 

cougar12

Unite Brothers & Sisters
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NJA Pilots keep up the great work! We thank You for your support! Ignore this Company spin!
 

cougar12

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I can’t believe there are pilots that buy the company’s latest crap! How can any pilot believe that decertifying a Pilot Union because “it will give us all an important advantage over our competitors” is a great thing for pilots?
How can our work rules and compensation be an advantage, unless they are less than the competition?

Translation for the dim witted, instead of making a better plan and use of widget to compete, the company proposes to compensate widget operator less than competition widget operator and widget operator is dumb enough to vote for this??

I need another beer!!
 

Dirty Squirrel

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Dirty Squirrel
As shanes123 puts it “get the facts straight “
First: Public statements of support by top management and Ricci himself, in writing supporting the decert group.
Second: apparently You are ok with leading a Union Busting company (CIE) into the aviation arena. By the way in Woelke’s own public video progression, 1st he denies outside involvement from a 3rd party, then he started using the line YOU just stated “was only contacted for free legal aid”.
Thanks for holding the door for them!
As for You don’t have a pile of cash it is because a lot of you don’t pay your dues. If You would have gotten together and showed some unity, stepped up and ran for election,you could have controlled the local.
Not one person in the decert group stepped up, instead You got played like a fiddle by a very good musician who has been doing this longer than You have known him.
As for Your second paragraph, Why do u think all these other Unions are sending letters, because they had a slow week and said let’s get together and see who we can bully? NO
It is because they understand the word Union and what Unity is.
You say 1108 lied to You, failed You, ignored us, and threatened us, and yet none of You had the balls to step up and run for any elected office. WHY?

I am not offering any skin in this debate. This isn't my writing or opinion. I'm just pasting this post which was written on the OS Crew Lounge since many of you aren't on that site.
 

imacdog

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That seems rather disingenuous, at best.
 

Casa212

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I am not offering any skin in this debate. This isn't my writing or opinion. I'm just pasting this post which was written on the OS Crew Lounge since many of you aren't on that site.

Dirty Squirrel
if You truly have no “skin in this debate” why are You posting the decert groups crap. Are You Fox News and just want to be fair and balanced. What You are in fact doing is forwarding their agenda, so I find it hard to believe You don’t care what happens and in fact would like to see the decert happen.
 

Bjtdrvr

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I am not sure how you say that you have no skin in this fight if you have access to that site?
 

MOMOMOJO

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I for one appreciate it Dirty Squirrel. I am assuming you are posting here to get the rebuttal these disingenuous tomes need and shed light on what the truth really is...

The problem with "that site" is you have to disclose your identity to one of the most self serving and dishonest people I've ever been snowed by. I would bet my next paycheck those Anonymous names aren't truly Anonymous if you're posting anything of consequence.

Remember, they've shared (or "promised to share") the names of card signers with management. Remember they claimed beer money funded the campaign until the Teamsters disclosed they were backed by some of the heaviest hitters in the anti labor movement with "free" assistance. Remember they claimed they were forming an in house union until caught in a lie had to admit it was just a straw man campaign. Do I need to go on?

We win every time we expose their lies. Frank has banned anyone with the information to do it. Bringing the fight to Flight Info is a good thing. I only hope DS you are being equally fair and posting the rebuttals or at least directing people here by saying "well the posters at Flightinfo.com have a different opinion".

Remember they have a reason to fear light shed on their lies. We have no fear because we haven't lied. Whatever Dirty Squirrel posts, at the end of the day it will just expose their inequity.
 

MagnumPI

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"Flexjet Red Label pilots enjoy wages that exceed that of their NetJets unionized peers by as much as 25%. "

Sounds like the company would be better off with a Pilot Union!

Read his book. The master plan is the top 20 might make more but the bottom 80 will make considerably less.

Even then, there’s still a disingenuous lie tucked in there for the Red Label Pilots. Divided out by days and hours, the Red Label pay sucks.

Let’s not forget that’s only a CL30 comparison because Kenn Ricci’s greatest showman trick is to create a little truth in the center of his master con game lie.

Ask a Gulfstream or Global pilot in the open market how they feel about the laughable wages in those programs. Are they 25% higher or 35% lower?

I find it interesting Frank’s article fails to mention Ricci has already been caught trying to scam the Red Label pilots out of their promised profit sharing. Frank fails to mention it is the Union Ricci wants to get rid of is the one fighting a grievance right now for his failure to pay the promised bonus on behalf of Red Label Pilots. The Union is far from anti-Red Label.

If Red Label pilots vote this union out, not only is there no guarantee their pay is protected (like it is right now) but the grievance goes away and so does their bonus.
 

MOMOMOJO

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And QOL No more hard days off IRL is already there

I was unaware of that until seeing that post on the VUH.

Between that post and JM's last two p2p letters reprinted there, the information available on the VUH is worthy of anyone's time.

You have to be a MIGS to post but anyone can sign up to read.
 

jetwash

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If Red Label pilots vote this union out, not only is there no guarantee their pay is protected (like it is right now) but the grievance goes away and so does their bonus.


That is exactely what I was thinking.

The red lable pilots have it all now.
They have the new aircraft, the good pay and make your own schedule plus a contract that guarantees it stays in place!!!!!

Why would they vote to decert and throw away the contract that keep all of this in place for them???

That would have to be the stupidest thing that they could do.
Cutting off their nose to spite their face.
 
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