NetJets Burning

[Hawk Driver]

Correspondence???????????????????

Made public by WHOM???????????

Link?

It's on the crewops website.

HD

 

[Hawk Driver]

Just curious where you pulled these figures out of...

Also available on the crewops website.

HD

 

[Hawk Driver]

Hogprint, at long last, we agree on the above.

However, I will ask the same question of you. "When's the last time you were in South America? Asia? Africa?" I respect whatever previous experience you brought to the table, but seriously, on the question above, with NetJets--when? where?

NJA regularly flies to South America and I personally know a X crew that flew around China a month or so ago.

HD

 

[flyjetspeed]

So it appears that those Gwhiz gentlemen are against us why? Becasue we are a threat to you? I don't think we are. We do work for the same company.

OK I will assume your post is directed at me or my fellow "Gwhiz" Pilots and will respond. First off, I thank you for the civility of your post. Are we against you? Absolutly NOT on pay. On Scope? Absolutely. I do not know a single GIV or GV pilot who has the slightest interest in joining the IBT. Not one. 100% not interested. Does the last S in 6S (Scope) threaten us? Clearly it does. Who will I place my trust in? A union that threatens to place me on a SCAB list if I show up for work or RTS who has treated NJI people quite well for the past 9 years. Does it sound like we work for the same company to you?

The company chose to compare their offer to other fractionals and ASA! But failed to compare them to other salaries they pay!!! That smells like bad apples and oranges to me...If you would care to, please post your salary so we can see just where we all are...That way the guess work goes out the window...

Starting pay for a GIVSP FO is 65-70K no big dark secret there. The spread is for G experience. Brand new Captains get 92K and upgrades are taking 4-5 years now with some sign of improvement. O/T is very limited. maybe 5K for Fo's and 10K for Pic's per year, only on the 6/5, no O/T on the 7/7 with few exceptions. No per diem. You are expected to early out/extend if needed. Again does this sound like the same company to you?

As for not going to the same places I beg to differ with you big boyz...We do south america, europe, Hawaii on a farily regular basis in the 2000 and the X. I've also had the pleasure of spending a few nights in places like Bogota...I would love to have your payscale and I deserve no less based on my rides with drivers that are packing...

I have no idea where you have flown in your career here, I have been to 6 countries in 6 days, have only spent ONE tour this year without crossing either the atlantic or pacific ocean and have gone across 4 times in one tour 5 times so far. I have been told to leave asap in 2 places this year and to not eat outdoors or near the window twice as well. Does this still sound like the same job?

Another question is why are you so defensive about what we are doing?

Defensive? Not I. Best of luck in your quest for better pay. I hope you double up. Maybe if you get more than me, I will get a raise. Peace Bro!

A hundred years from now it will not matter what your bank account was, the sort of house you lived in or the kind of car you drove. But the world may be different because you were important in the life of a child.

 

[squonk]

It's on the crewops website.

HD

As I referred to whomever posted the first time. It was just one part of the whole pay matrix. If they posted everything, then I stand corrected.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I personally know a X crew that flew around China a month or so ago.

Did they ship it over there on a boat out of SFO?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Are we against you? Absolutly NOT on pay. On Scope? Absolutely. I do not know a single GIV or GV pilot who has the slightest interest in joining the IBT. Not one. 100% not interested.

My colleague has for the most part echoed my sentiments exactly. I will add that while NJI pilots enjoy what you have branded the “golden benefits” of flying for NetJets, our missions are quite different. Our destinations, our stage lengths, our in-flight service, they are all much different than anything NJA performs, excluding the BBJ (and once again they do quite well for themselves).

I feel the frustration level has boiled to the point it has many of you in a tyrant of uncontrollable proportions. The question was once asked, ‘if I were in your shoes what would I do’. In a way, I was. I flew for years at the regional airline level, when it became apparent I wasn’t going any further, I packed my bags, bought a new suit, and interviewed with anyone and everyone that I thought would move me up the food chain a little more.

My point is no matter who you work for, or what you fly; you know the deal going into the job. If you took it hoping things would change, or this or that would happen, shame on you. Your pilot group has made several critical errors in judgment over the past few months in dealing with NJI, EJM, and Charter pilots. While I’m willing to look past the issue, your group continually brings it back up. I think most people would agree that our pilot group (NJI) weighs heavy on the 55 and older group and have truly been there and done that in aviation. They deserve a little more respect than the sly and insulting remarks we get on these boards, i.e. “see ya in recurrent, glad to have you as my copilot” crap.

Obviously I don’t call the shots. But I’m willing to bet RTS won’t budge an inch on the Gulfstreams, he’d rather sell it than merge it. No one in corporate America goes through the steps NetJets has in setting up NJI as a true independent operation unless they mean to sell it, spin it, or protect it from some outside source like a lawsuit.

Of course that’s never stopped a union from frivolous wasting of dues money trying to prove a point.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

No i'm not talking a small percentage of sell off's. I'm talking selling off 100 percent of the buisness. That's what the company was saying. They have the money to run the buisness with 100 percent selloff but they don't have the money to pay us a respectable wage.

I feel sorry for you. You only get one side of the story. Although you do come on here to find out some sliver of the other half of the story. Good for you.

We see both sides of the story. We know what are union is asking we know what the company is trying to force on us.

I really wonder how much it would actually cost to park all your planes (no operating costs), not have to pay any pilots, not have to airline, and to just charter all of your flights. I bet the difference isn't as much as you might think. Maybe some smart SOB out there can project some numbers.

Ace

 

[aeronautic1]

I ask again, after you STFD, where you gonna go? You got a guaranteed job some where?

You could always go to Avb.ase. The are always looking for boobs, oops, I mean pilots.

 

[old*art]

"They deserve a little more respect than the sly and insulting remarks we get on these boards, i.e. “see ya in recurrent, glad to have you as my copilot” crap."

The NJA pilots posting here no more represent the totality of the NJA pilots than you few do the NJI pilots. I have spoken to numerous NJI pilots individually - both currently and past employed - and they were willing to speak candidly about NJI. (In a group the unwritten rule is always tow the company line - especially in the presence of NJA pilots.) NJI is not the bed of roses you present here. For example one pilot had left because he got upgraded to G IV captain and got no increase in pay and found a better paying job in a much smaller airplane. (I know - bad example because you are going to say we should all do the same.) That is the universal complaint I hear - that all of you "cut your own deals" and noone knows what anyone else makes - not passing judgement, just stating a fact. I won't go into the other deficient areas as I wish to make another point.
I actually feel sorry for the NJI pilots. As a group I have found them to be no different than other pilot groups, but from the first they have been used as shills for Santulli in aggravating the unionized NJA pilots. I am not pro union, but the treatment dished out at NJA by the top management gives the understanding as to why people do unionize. Everyone here speaks of knowing what one has going in - my response is Santulli knew NJA was unionized from the start, but rather than using it as an asset he has fought it at every turn. As a group the NJA pilots are not anti-company or trying to strangle the golden goose. Until this group, Santulli got - based on trust - everything he wanted from the NJA pilot group. It is just that Santulli has expected us to take what comes from a different orifice on the goose than eggs for years, promising to share then keeping the golden eggs for himself, and this group of pilots has finally had enough. The trust is now gone. (One unintended consequence of keeping the NJA pilots pay low is that - unlike the airlines - 90% of the pilots here know they could replace their income readily outside aviation and hence have nothing to lose.)
As far as NJI is concerned, if someone keeps poking you in the eye with something long enough, one eventually gets fed up and does whatever necessary to get it stopped. It is not about the good folks at NJI or their airplanes, it is about how they are used. If all the info is ever released you will see that an offer was made to allow NJ to keep the Gulfstreams seperate. Personally it makes me tired just to look at a Gwhiz - and the owners prefer the oval Falcon cabin anyway to that cigar tube.