NetJet ??

[payton]

I got an application the other day. Was wondering if this means you will get an interview.

I havent sent them a resume in about a year. Not sure what their sudden interest is.

thanks for the info.

 

[Lrjet55]

Don't fill it out. Do yourself a favor. This is not the place to be!!!!

Straight from the horses mouth. NJA will never pay top dollar salaries. 100K will never happen!

Gunfyter, check your pm.

The MEC chair said the company will never give us a 100% raise because the company claims their employee costs will jump 300%. Now thats some happy horsesh!t.

This company is a friggin joke.

We have no benefits, no incentives, no stock options, nothing! yet we are not supposed to expect a wage that is industry standard or above because the company does not want to raise its labor costs.

For those who dont know a captain at NJA starts at $37,500! A 100% raise puts us just over $74,000. Still way below industry standard.

 

[banned username 2]

Don't fill it out. Do yourself a favor. This is not the place to be!!!!

Straight from the horses mouth. NJA will never pay top dollar salaries. 100K will never happen!

Gunfyter, check your pm.

The MEC chair said the company will never give us a 100% raise because the company claims their employee costs will jump 300%. Now thats some happy horsesh!t.

This company is a friggin joke.

We have no benefits, no incentives, no stock options, nothing! yet we are not supposed to expect a wage that is industry standard or above because the company does not want to raise its labor costs.

For those who dont know a captain at NJA starts at $37,500! A 100% raise puts us just over $74,000. Still way below industry standard.

Aren't you the guy who just a few weeks ago was telling everyone on another thread they would be eating crow when they said you were crazy thinking you'd be getting a 100% raise??? You said it was basically a done deal and NJA would be a top paying employer?

 

[Lrjet55]

I may have said that and now I am admiting I am a fool. I am a complete idiot for taking an MEC member at their word, on May 28th, that 125K would be the minimum they would settle for and for thinking the NJA would actually value its pilots and make them well paid.

I am also a moron for having a private conversation with Gary Hoffman and believing him when he said that NJA wants us to be the highest paid pilots in the industry and that they(NJA) want this job to be one you can retire from.

I am wrong and I admit it.

 

[banned username 2]

I may have said that and now I am admiting I am a fool. I am a complete idiot for taking an MEC member at their word, on May 28th, that 125K would be the minimum they would settle for and for thinking the NJA would actually value its pilots and make them well paid.

I guess my thought when I read those comments back then were "Why should the company give 100% raises when these guys have been working for such low pay for so long?" Basically, if they offered 30% more than you are making now, who's gonna turn it down? No one... you guys are making 30% less now, so a little bit of something would be better then a whole lotta nothing... From a business standpoint, if the guys are working for X now, they don't need 2X to continue... And since average raises are 3-4%, 30% would be like a jackpot hit.... from a company standpoint.

This is from an outsider looking in... 100% raises just didn't seem like a realistic or logical expectation at all... I just didn't see any real reason (from a company standpoint) for the company to raise the pay that much...

I am wrong and I admit it.

Most people on here couldn't say this... Kudos to you for admitting when you errored...

I wish the best of luck with your raises and contract... But just the sheer fact that it was been over 2 years in negotiations tells you that the company wasn't going to be easy on you...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

to a pilot -- that 100% you talked about sounds plain a$$ right. - and deserved. (at least I think so)

to your company, they are laughing thier arses off!

WHY in the world would they pay you 100% more if they have 5000+ resumes on file from other idiots willing to do it for 37k/yr?

because they LIKE you?
because you do something special?
because Netjets makes SO much money?
because they are afraid of a strike?
because they think you wont fly as safe?
You think they VALUE you?

C'mon man....

YOU ALL took that job for peanuts, so will any guy behind you. Step aside if you cant live with that right?

As its been said...3-5% is normal raises, many companies capped at 6-7% (plus bonuses etc..)....

and you say you may get 30%!!! man, thats nothing to be ashamed of!

Now...PLEASE dont say..."well, I make 100% less than average to begin with!!".....again.....

get what you can going in the door - or forever hold your peace.

 

[payton]

I think you guys are confused.

The "pay" thread is somewhere else.

 

[DO-82 driver]

I may have said that and now I am admiting I am a fool. I am a complete idiot for taking an MEC member at their word, on May 28th, that 125K would be the minimum they would settle for and for thinking the NJA would actually value its pilots and make them well paid.

......so I have to ask.....who is holding a gun to your head making you stay here? I get the impression you're the type of whinner who wouldn't be happy with any contract. Just quit........if you're this miserable here I can only imagine what you're like in the cockpit. This job certainly isn't for everyone and you prove that point. I like the job......sure I have my moments but don't we all. I would encourage anyone to try it here after they educate themselves concerning the working conditions. If they feel they can't hack it..... that's fine.

 

[On Your Six]

Southwest is hiring 600 pilots next year....

 

[Lrjet55]

I like the job. Always have, always will. A weak MEC and people like you make it lousy from time to time. I listened to the wrong people(MEC) and believed everything they said. That was my mistake. It was my intention to come here as a final stop but oh well so when the right opportunity comes along I will leave. As for caling me a whinner, if you feel the need to call people names then go ahead. Im calling a spade a spade. I have not been spreading any half truths about NJA. The fact you seem so ofended makes me think you voted in the last contract and will vote in another stellar one this time around.

 

[xpdriver]

Fill out that app!!!! This is a good place to work..All these people that bitch ALL THE TIME knew what the job was when they said"yes I will Take The job:" We will be getting A very good pay raise when ever this thing is done..There are people that think that they deserve 200000 at year 5. That would be nice but no matter how much NJA makes,they are not going to come of that kind of cash..Look at united, they were going under before 9/11... You will see 100000ish at year 5. and a nice raise every year after that. This beats any regional out there. I know, i flew for 2 different ones. All you NJA pilots out there, don"t let dreams of cars,smwimming pools and movie stars cloud your judgement about what could be a very good contract. And just remember we get to doi this again in 4 or so years. This is not the last contract ever. Before you guys flame me...I am NOT one of those 30% guys.. I believe 100000ish or more is what a 5 year should make...

 

[banned username 2]

I am NOT one of those 30% guys.. I believe 100000ish or more is what a 5 year should make...

What YOU think a 5 year SHOULD make and what the company thinks a 5 year should make appear to be two very different things... LrJet55 has recently learned that very lesson...

Just an observation...

 

[FLYLOW22]

And just remember we get to do this again in 4 or so years. This is not the last contract ever. Before you guys flame me...I am NOT one of those 30% guys.. I believe 100000ish or more is what a 5 year should make...

I agree. It will most likely take successive CBAs to get where we want to be pay wise.

Pay isn't the only concern though. I will NOT vote YES a contract that divides this pilot group into "haves" and "have nots". It will pit the pilot group agaisnt each other. It creates a B-Scale. Too many pailot groups have been tested with the same question.... and have failed. A perfect example is the RJ and how it's eating the profession from under the pilots at major airlines. I know not many of us signed up to make only $50,000 a year as a SENIOR Captain and sweat through 100 flying hours a month. ALPA should have embraced the RJ but......

I recently saw one of the US Airways EMB-170's flying out of PIT and my mind's thoughts raced from "WOW!! What a cool looking BIG airplane" to "... with a pathetic paycheck". The coolness of flying only goes so far. I HAVE BILLS TO PAY. WE ALL DO!!! Those guys and gals at US flying that heap are making $55 an hour as it's Commander in Chief. F/O's.... we won't mention that here. It's too low.

I am not expecting to get $200,000 at yr 5. I am expecting more than the MEC is hinting at though. It is a fact that SWA didn't begin paying their senior Captains $178,000 a year when they started ops 30 yrs ago. I don't expect to hit that salary level... YET. We are NOT SWA here at NJA. We are the nemisis of Walmart. We are Neiman Marcus. I expect to be compensated as such some day. SWA is very good at what they do. NJA is very good at what we do. NJA is very young.... and already has far deeper pockets than all of the major airlines COMBINED!! We should be compensated as such. We carry THE richest and MOST famous. We should be compensated as such.

We are not asking for the moon. I do want to reach orbit on this CBA though.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

wealthy companies stay wealthy for a reason, and its not by giving 100% raises.

flying the famous means more pay? prior to Netjets the "famous" flew on $hitty on demand chartered jets - some of the lowest paying gigs out there!!

you fly the richest? nah...the richest own, they dont quarter share. rich is relative and as you are learning - the richer they are the cheaper they are. Yes, thier car drivers and dog groomers make more money than you.


I hope you get a large raise and great deal, but your arguement makes no sense.

 

[banned username 2]

wealthy companies stay wealthy for a reason, and its not by giving 100% raises.

flying the famous means more pay? prior to Netjets the "famous" flew on $hitty on demand chartered jets - some of the lowest paying gigs out there!!

you fly the richest? nah...the richest own, they dont quarter share. rich is relative and as you are learning - the richer they are the cheaper they are. Yes, thier car drivers and dog groomers make more money than you.


I hope you get a large raise and great deal, but your arguement makes no sense.

Exactly... Well said...

 

[xpdriver]

Thanks for the replies....My reason for writing that letter was to tell that pilot to apply to NJA.. It will be and i think might already be the best aviation job out there...But know what the life style is before you take the job..I get sick and tired of flying with guys that bitch the entire week about the job...You have to throw bags,sometimes you have to get up at 330am..Your schedule changes ALL THE TIME..although the contract is not done,know that you might have to move. Don't listen to that one guy that says either i always get up early or the guy that says i never go out before 9am, because they are both full of [email protected] to as many people as you can aboout any job and decide for your family.. The guys that have the most problem at NJA usually bring it on there selfs..I have been here over 4 years, i don't let them push me but i do my job then i go home..The guys that bitch about every little thing usually have the most problems.Just my thoughts...STANDING BY FOR THE C...

 

[niteflyr]

PAYTON - skip to the bottom

Glad to see everyone blaming everything that is supposedly in the next contract on the MEC. I guess that will mean all of you are getting your names on the next ballot to see just how much power they have in all this. There are rules and there is the big "bargaining in good faith" they have to contend with. They don't get to name thier price and get it. No one ever has and we will not be the first. Delta didn't start operations all those years ago by offering to pay the pilots 300K+ overnight. It takes a series of contracts, each one improving on the other. The benefits and scheduling improvements TA'd are already huge. Guys forget that 50% of the pilots are still on the worthless 17day schedule instead of 7 on 7 off.


As for the Richest owning, wrong. I fly them every tour and they are not owning, and they are glad to tell us all about how much better owning a "Fraction" is than owning outright. I guess the richest does own - Bill Gates. But what about Mr. Buffet?? True, the famous did and many still do fly charters, and could care less.

Back to the original reason for this thread, I am a 2.5 year Netjetter and I too love the job. I have had many jobs in aviation and this is by far the best. YES, I would like to make lots of money and get rich but that will never happen for anyone working for someone else no matter how big of check you get. It is all in what you do with your money. Many pilots have spent the raise and retro already and that is why this is such an emotional issue for them because they NEED that $$$ now. Just know up front, you are not going to come to Netjets and fly in and out of major hubs all day and RON at one of them. You don't know where you are going, if you will be done when you get there, or sometimes if you will even get there before being re-routed. Works for me, any flight I get to LAX or ORD etc. is the low point of my tour now, you can have them and their Airport Hiltons. Any questions you have about the job just PM me if you want to avoid all the other "info" you have been getting.

 

[Groucho]

What limits are there on a strike

I have been watching the NetJets developments for quite some time and as a former Corporate guy, now airline
what rules are there on a strike situaition? These negotiations have been going on for ever
and no real progress seems to be made.

What limits the pilots right to strike. Obviously the railway labor act doesn't apply, Netjets is not a certificated 121 or 135 carrier.

Is it the unity or lack of it in the Union or some other aspect of the current agreement the prevents a
a job action or the threat of one.

It seems to me that you guys are in the catbird's seat as far as leverage goes. They can't replace that many pilots for that fleet mix quickly, not enough training capacity exists.

But hey, I could be wrong; I was once,... I think.
"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" Groucho

 

[LR45JI]

What limits the pilots right to strike. Obviously the railway labor act doesn't apply, Netjets is not a certificated 121 or 135 carrier.

Is it the unity or lack of it in the Union or some other aspect of the current agreement the prevents a
a job action or the threat of one.

It seems to me that you guys are in the catbird's seat as far as leverage goes. They can't replace that many pilots for that fleet mix quickly, not enough training capacity exists.

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" Groucho

Groucho,



Actually we are governed by the RLA. NJA is a HUGE 135 operator (all Marquis flights are 135 and Marquis sales grew by 300% last year alone). I have been trying to gauge the unity here for a while and jury is still out. Everyone says they are "On Board" but when the water starts filling the boat I think a lot of guys will become "Off Board" real quick. It's easy to say...."I will Strike"....much more difficult to actually follow through. Personally, I have never Struck and I really don't want to. Anyone who says they "want to strike" needs to examine their head - sometimes it's necessary but does anyone really WANT to strike? I hope not.



I agree. We have the leverage. I have said for a while: The union has the power and the company has had control of these negotiations. I think that is starting to change in favor of the union. I think we will soon have the power and control. The question is: Will out current MEC utilize it? I doubt it and that's unfortunate.

 

[FLYLOW22]

you fly the richest? nah...the richest own, they dont quarter share. rich is relative and as you are learning - the richer they are the cheaper they are.

Actually, no... we do fly the richest. Not all of them but we do fly for Bill Gates (the richest) and the next runner up is Uncle Warren (who oversees Berk Hath that owns NJA). So.... Ummmmm.... Sorry bud. We do fly the richest.

The richest didn't get rich by wasting money. For many, fractional ownership has proven to be MUCH more cost/time effective. Others who are resisting buying in either have a real need for their own aircraft or are just stubborn.