Net Vs Flex

[cathaywannabe]

I understand your concern. Having worked for two failed airlines myself the financial situation of my present company (NJA) is a concern. I'm very "sensitive" about it.

As far as NJA I'm assuming that last year's lost was due to the labor strife and the resultant sell-off's. I am hoping that the company will turn a profit in one or two years and from then on things will be bright.

There is no doubt in my mind that NJA is a great company that can be consistently profitable for years to come. Two things concern me:

1) There is a significant amount of "waste" in day to day corporate activites
2) There is still a militantism among "SOME" (only some pilots). Even though the contract is done the war still rages in their minds. Some seem to think the company can make money with 5 hour duty days, etc., etc. Most pilots here are great, but some do need an attitude adjustment.

No place is immune from financial ruin. However, Warren Buffet is probably the best and most consitent investor the world has ever known. In my mind, if Warren can't do it, nobody can. I think the company made significant and costly mistakes during its 4 year labor battle with the pilots, but I also think this place has potential like nowhere else. Will we realize our potential? Your guess is as good as mine.

If you do come to NJA look for at least a 3 year upgrade, so you probably won't reep the benefits of the good PIC pay for a while. Also, Warren could sell NJA off tomorrow to another holding company. I wouldn't bet on it, but everything is possible.

I have more faith in NJA than any airline I've ever worked at. I also really enjoy my job, but that doesn't mean it can't all be gone tomorrow.

 

[SeaSpray]

Non-union Flexjet announced that they made a "modest" profit in 2005 and a "slight" profit in 2004. Union shop NetJets, which just inked a very expensive labor contract, lost $40 million through third quarter 2005 and lost "a lot" of money in 2004 according to CEO Richard Santulli.

Flex is also aggressively seeking to increase market share by undercutting NetJets share pricing and developing aircraft point designed for the fractional market such as the Challenger CL300.

Citation Shares (also non-union) is the most rapidly growing of the fractional providers.

Good luck with your decision.

SS






`

 

[Majik]

I believe FlexJet furloughed pilots in the past.

NetJets Pilots have a written contract regarding pay, benefits, quality of life, work rules, etc... FlexJet Pilots have no such guarantee.

NetJets Pilots have a more generous OT, Extended Days Pay, After Midnight Return policy than FlexJet pilots do.

I would choose NetJets unless I lived near a FlexJet Base and did not want to move to one of the 5 NetJets domiciles.

 

[ultrarunner]

The union isn't the be-all, end-all. And, IMO, I don't think just because the pilots at NJ have a CBA that it makes it a better place to work.

 

[On Your Six]

I like Flexjet's fleet better (lucky if you get to fly the CL300), but NJA has a better pilot pay/benefits package and it hasn't furloughed pilots like Flexjet has in the past. If Flex could put a better financial and QOL package together for its pilots (on par with NJA's and CS's), then I would go to Flexjet. However, that doesn't seem likely in the short term, so I would go to NJA at this point if I were in your shoes.

Go fly a Citation X for NJA and see the entire country multiple times PER WEEK...

 

[gunfyter]

Non-union Flexjet announced that they made a "modest" profit in 2005 and a "slight" profit in 2004. Union shop NetJets, which just inked a very expensive labor contract, lost $40 million through third quarter 2005 and lost "a lot" of money in 2004 according to CEO Richard Santulli.

Flex is also aggressively seeking to increase market share by undercutting NetJets share pricing and developing aircraft point designed for the fractional market such as the Challenger CL300.

Citation Shares (also non-union) is the most rapidly growing of the fractional providers.

Good luck with your decision.

SS






`

NJ lost money because they did not have enough airplanes or Pilots.... Can't get them fast enough. If I had to lose money in aviation that would be the reason I would want. With 76 aircraft deliveries scheduled for 2006 and near 500 pilots coming on board. ... The solution is at hand.What is called an exensive labor contract is really a bargain for the company. The efficiencies and flexibility in scheduling gained by the company are huge. With the raise I received I also got 14 to 18 more work days per year. 10 to 15% MORE flight availability. 150 hours flown in 2 months of 2006.Another way to look at it is an average of 60 to 70 hours more flying over the extra 14 days. At more than $8000/hr charged to jet Card owners if only 40 hours were occupied... there is an extra $320,000 in revenue flying per Citation X pilot! Or TEN times the recent raises in the new CBA.Without the new CBA if the 40 revenue hours had to be sold off to Charter.... would cost much more than the pilot salary increases of the CBA. So expect to see the $85 million in charter costs go down to near nothing soon.Also mistated is the performance for 2004. A 10 million dollar profit was made by NJA but more than offset by losses in Europe. That was the lot of money lost. Not in the US where money was made.
....................What NJ is building is a giant network. Can you hear me Now? Like Verizons' cell network. Its nice to have a cool phone ... but like the (VERIZON) commercial says... ITS THE NETWORK. Can You Hear me now? Its nice to have some cool Jets. Most of the frax do.... BUT.... Its the NetWork ............................................................................................We've had Dumb Competitors in the past and they bleed. We've got more blood than they have....

 

[Going2Baja]

Excellent post gunfyter! With all of your research and knowledge I hope that 1108 is using your services!! Keep it up!

Baja.

BTW - Oh yeah - Go to Netjets!

 

[buttercup]

Excellent post gunfyter! With all of your research and knowledge I hope that 1108 is using your services!! Keep it up!

Baja.

BTW - Oh yeah - Go to Netjets!

True dat! Gunfyter is a smart guy even if he is from Texas, but that's probably because he is a New Yorker origionally.

 

[GEXDriver]

NetJets Pilots have a more generous OT, Extended Days Pay, After Midnight Return policy than FlexJet pilots do.

Is it any wonder why you lost $40 million in 2005 and FlexJets made a profit?

I believe FlexJet furloughed pilots in the past.

With your new CBA you've made furloughs possible for yourselves if there is a down-tick in the economy or a further increase in NetJets' losses. You've become expensive help and a sizeable portion of NetJets' operating costs.

A 10 million dollar profit was made by NJA but more than offset by losses in Europe. That was the lot of money lost. Not in the US where money was made.

While this was partially true in 2004, it's not the case for 2005. NetJets domestically lost a wad of money in 2005, in part due to labor unrest.

Anyone who's been in an FBO in the last year has heard you guys challenging each other as to who could ground their airplane for the most asinine reason or calling out to your cohorts "Remember, fly Long Range Cruise!" as they headed out to fly. Even though the CBA is signed, that anti-company attitude seems to prevail among a lot of your pilots.

 

[gunfyter]

My understanding is Flex made a profit due to the fact that the buybacks went on bombardier's books...