Net Jets

[FAcFriend]

Actually, the problem is larger (or smaller) than you state here: Any time over~160 hours per month is OVERTIME at union jobs. So, it would be 160 hours regular time, plus 74 hours overtime. That's a bit less than $9.61/hr.

On the plus side, you get to fly shiny jets and meet rich and famous people, so maybe that's the offset mngmnt is figuring here...

C

try the math again.

13 duty hours x18 days month= 234 hours a month.
160 hour regular pay plus 74 hours OT

27k divided by 12 months = 2250.00 for 160 hours

Ot = time and half or 21.09 per hour times 74 hours = 1560.00

so if you are flying 234 hours a month you are making

2250 regular pay plus 1560 OT time = 3810.00 a month x 10 months = 38100.00 You cannot count on 12 months of OT because of vacation

Does this mean if you work 18 days a month/13 hour days as a FO you will actually make about 38,100.00 with regular and OT pay?

 

[Dixon Cider]

try the math again.

13 duty hours x18 days month= 234 hours a month.
160 hour regular pay plus 74 hours OT

27k divided by 12 months = 2250.00 for 160 hours

Ot = time and half or 21.09 per hour times 74 hours = 1560.00

so if you are flying 234 hours a month you are making

2250 regular pay plus 1560 OT time = 3810.00 a month x 10 months = 38100.00 You cannot count on 12 months of OT because of vacation

Does this mean if you work 18 days a month/13 hour days as a FO you will actually make about 38,100.00 with regular and OT pay?

No. This is not the case. What he is saying is, that a "normal" union job, the "normal" employees get OT after 160 hours/month. We are salary, we only get OT over 12 hours. This drops our "bottom line" if broken down on an "hourly" rate. A FO WILL NEVER make $38,100. He/she could work 14 hours a day all 204 days on the 17 day schedule (overtime starts after 12 hours), and it would still only come to $7,976.40 in overtime for the year. Add that to your annual salary of $27,108, it comes to a whopping $35,084.40.

THAT WOULD BE WORKING OVERTIME EVERYDAY FOR A YEAR. Now, that doesn't take into account "undertime". So even if you work 14 hours on half of your 204 days, and accumulated some "undertime", it is VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE MORE THAN $35,000/YR.

Now if you want to get into even greater detail, you will lose even more money in overtime because you get two weeks of vacation. It could be skewed in a lot of different ways. Bottom line is the pay sucks.

 

[miles otoole]

No. This is not the case. What he is saying is, that a "normal" union job, the "normal" employees get OT after 160 hours/month. We are salary, we only get OT over 12 hours. This drops our "bottom line" if broken down on an "hourly" rate. A FO WILL NEVER make $38,100. He/she could work 14 hours a day all 204 days on the 17 day schedule (overtime starts after 12 hours), and it would still only come to $7,976.40 in overtime for the year. Add that to your annual salary of $27,108, it comes to a whopping $35,084.40.

THAT WOULD BE WORKING OVERTIME EVERYDAY FOR A YEAR. Now, that doesn't take into account "undertime". So even if you work 14 hours on half of your 204 days, and accumulated some "undertime", it is VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE MORE THAN $35,000/YR.

Now if you want to get into even greater detail, you will lose even more money in overtime because you get two weeks of vacation. It could be skewed in a lot of different ways. Bottom line is the pay sucks.

But what about CA bypass pay? Isn't the upgrade time (and subsequent CA pay) "supposed to be" 4 years after hire???? If you are getting CA within the first year, aren't you gaming the system as well as mgmt?

 

[FAcFriend]

No. This is not the case. What he is saying is, that a "normal" union job, the "normal" employees get OT after 160 hours/month. We are salary, we only get OT over 12 hours.

this is explaining some. But is a "normal" union job- aviation? Corporate aviation? NBAA standard?

Do other pilots who make the NBAA standard get OT after 160 hours a month?

If you make 7976.00 for 204 hours of OT per year (potential) does this mean you are paid 39.00 per hour for OT as a FO?

 

[Ultra Grump]

this is explaining some. But is a "normal" union job- aviation? Corporate aviation? NBAA standard?

Do other pilots who make the NBAA standard get OT after 160 hours a month?

The point was, for other normal working positions (union or not), OT is paid for any work over 8 hrs/day. We don't get that.

If you make 7976.00 for 204 hours of OT per year (potential) does this mean you are paid 39.00 per hour for OT as a FO?

No, we are paid OT for each hour over 12, at $19.55/hr for 1st year FOs. If a new FO worked a 14-hour day every day for the 204 days/yr he is on, he will get 2 hrs OT per day. 204 x 2 x $19.55 = $7976.40. Comprende?

 

[FAcFriend]

The point was, for other normal working positions (union or not), OT is paid for any work over 8 hrs/day. We don't get that.


OT? Yeah, I guess you are correct. Under Bush's new rules most people who have no direct reports or no responsibility for money or P/L get OT after 8 hrs.

And of course most of your unions have always gotten OT after 8 (plumbers, electricians, auto line workers and steel workers, etc)

 

[Fly High]

I guess all of this discussion helps me in my decision to not put my resume in with NJ until the new contract comes out. I gotta believe that the new numbers and schedules will have to be a lot better if they want to hang onto their pilots. Just think of the investment that they have in your aircraft training already, not to mention your experience of how things work flying the line. To train new pilots to replace a bunch of pilots that leave because they have had enough of the NJ garbage would cost a huge amount of $$$$. I currently fly for a company that is not fractional and I get more $$$ than some of the NJ captains. I always thought that it would be a good thing to become a part of the NJ team and fly new equipment on a schedule. I have learned that your schedule is a whole lot worse than mine and so is the pay for at least the first 7-10 years. Why make the change? That is the question that I am asking myself now! Thanks for all of the info!

 

[Fozzy]

Fly High,

Good choice. Stay away until (if) this gets fixed. You do not want to come here now. Schedule and pay are horrible. And job protection for a probationary pilot can be dicey.

As an aside, it will make for great fun for you to watch how things go this fall at NutJets with the Holiday season coming. Going to get even more ugly!


Good luck.

 

[FAcFriend]

You are right Fly High, if you work for a company that has better hours and better pay, than you should not come to work here.

If you can get a job with better hours and better pay than you should leave.

 

[Heavy Set]

Fly High,

Good choice. Stay away until (if) this gets fixed. You do not want to come here now. Schedule and pay are horrible. And job protection for a probationary pilot can be dicey.

As an aside, it will make for great fun for you to watch how things go this fall at NutJets with the Holiday season coming. Going to get even more ugly!


Good luck.

I spoke with an NJA G200 pilot and he said the same thing - this Holiday Season is going to be a BIG MESS if things aren't changed in the very near future. For him, the pilot integration of NJI into NJA was also a big deal and he won't be satisfied until a much better contract including salary, QOL and scope issues are markedly improved.

Sounds like you wouldn't want to be an owner with places to go over Thanksgiving if this thing ain't worked out...