Net Jets Savannah

[hawkerjet]

Does anybody have any info on the net jets GIV, GV side of the house. what does the schedule look like, is it similar to 10 on 7 off. also, anybody with a fax number for these guys in savannah. what's the pay like? thanx in advance

 

[GVFlyer]

Post withdrawn.

 

[Chocks]

I don't like where this thread is going.

 

[Mach92]

Single Carrier Status will be filed by March.

Just remember American Eagle.

Via la revolution

 

[hawkerjet]

what is single carrier staus?

 

[Grizz]

Under the railway labor act, all wholly owned companies under a "single transportation system" are to be covered by the same employee union and CBA. Since we are already Teamsters and our NJI "brethren" are militantly non-union, they would be forced to become Teamster members in our local as soon as a judge orders the petition approved. This one is a slam dunk. If you go to work in Savannah, plan on being a Teamster within the year.

Now the question comes of seniority integration and pay scales after integration. Since you have 250 members and we have 1950+, we've paid dues since being hired and they haven't - you can expect that we're going to insure that those factors are taken into consideration. If you're ready to be at the bottom of 2250 guys at NetJets/NJI , by all means - take that rosey job.

 

[Grizz]

GV - too late dude. Most of us saw your post anyway. Hope you like the new look of NJI in the next few months. I think you guys may be offered up by Santulli as his sacrificial lambs during the coming negotiations.

 

[hawkerjet]

ok now i am starting to understand this. sorry for opening up a can of worms, i was just searching for some info. i hope you can work out this deal with minimum disagreement

 

[AA717driver]

SC should be SG=Seat Grab.TC

 

[Grizz]

AA-

Might want to do a little research into how that place came to be and you'd realize the seat grab already occured. It wasn't us doing the grabbing. I won't say that Local 284 and some of our elected leaders didn't play a role in that.. but those guys are gone now. But hey, don't let anyone confuse your perceptions with the facts.

 

[CE750Driver]

I agree Griz, met with TN last night for about three hours. He was glad to talk to the "critical voice against SU". We had a great talk and he confirmed the SC suit will happen soon. He also said he realized I am not Anti SU, just keeping them on their toes and he likes it. Also went over the plan for the next 5 months and I have to say I am now IMPRESSED. This critical voice is now silenced.

 

[CatYaaak]

GV - too late dude. Most of us saw your post anyway. Hope you like the new look of NJI in the next few months. I think you guys may be offered up by Santulli as his sacrificial lambs during the coming negotiations.

Pathetic thuggery driven by jealousness. Showing your class again I see, and still doesn't do a thing about you all agreeing to work for bottom-feeding wages, does it. It speaks volumes that pilots want to remain outside your union because the pay and benefits are better without one, and that you have to, as you admit, "force them" to join.

Here's a very basic concept for you to remember since you are a gung-ho union boy.....people are supposed to want to join a union because being a member offers a BETTER deal in terms of QOL and pay (not a worse one)...you know, advantges... than they could get on their own. The fact that you can't do that, and therefore must attempt to drag people down to your level through legal avenues instead, pretty much proves your goal is one driven by spite, and nothing else.

You WANT the sacrificial lambs Griz, and that shows your true colors. Of course if you get them, that will just solidify your sucky wages because mngmt "gave you something". Good luck paying your bills with that empty victory if it happens. Of course, you might be able to blugeon your way into a Gulfstream seat you'll otherwise never see there, or anywhere else. Have fun being babysat.

 

[CatYaaak]

AA-

Might want to do a little research into how that place came to be and you'd realize the seat grab already occured. It wasn't us doing the grabbing. I won't say that Local 284 and some of our elected leaders didn't play a role in that.. but those guys are gone now. But hey, don't let anyone confuse your perceptions with the facts.

Revisionist history from someone who wasn't even there.

 

[AA717driver]

Griz--You can rationalize this any way you want. Every single post I've seen on this subject by a NJA pilot is dripping with saliva over the Gulfstreams going to NJA and the pilots going to the bottom of the list.

This is abhorrent. Pilots went to NJA and NJI knowing the situation. Sure, NJI was set up from the beginning as a lever against NJA. No one went to either company expecting anything other than what they got.

Now, the NJA pilots are attempting a hostile takeover with no mention of an integration--they will go straight to the bottom of the list after someone who was hired last week.

You guys have been represented by the Teamsters way too long.TC

 

[Grizz]

This is abhorrent. Pilots went to NJA and NJI knowing the situation. Sure, NJI was set up from the beginning as a lever against NJA. No one went to either company expecting anything other than what they got.

So the pilots at NJI went there knowing they were being used as a lever, they knew what to expect and now you expect me to feel sorry for them? You're a laugh riot AA.

Read me back anywhere I said that they should be placed at the bottom of the seniority list? You can't because I DIDN"T SAY THAT. I did say that factors such as length of union membership should be taken into consideration in integration.

My real position on the subject is that they should have a choice to make up back dues to date of hire and retain the seniority # their date of hire would hold or not pay back dues and get a seniority number based on when they did start paying dues. That leaves the choice up to them and it doesn't penalize the guys that have been paying dues all along. I imagine somehow AA, you'll still see that as unfair to those poor guys at NJI.

Furthermore, I don't want a Gulfstream seat. I've done enough overseas flying in my career and I don't care for it much. I do, however, want to be paid as much as anyone else at the company that I'm senior to unless I'm given the opportunity to displace them via seniority.

Good to see the yakster chiming in on the subject. I knew I'd draw him out. He's relatively easy to work on. Fortunately, he's still on my ignore list. Blissful silence from the clown prince of corporate aviation.

 

[x402]

Griz--You can rationalize this any way you want. Every single post I've seen on this subject by a NJA pilot is dripping with saliva over the Gulfstreams going to NJA and the pilots going to the bottom of the list.

This is abhorrent. Pilots went to NJA and NJI knowing the situation. Sure, NJI was set up from the beginning as a lever against NJA. No one went to either company expecting anything other than what they got.

Now, the NJA pilots are attempting a hostile takeover with no mention of an integration--they will go straight to the bottom of the list after someone who was hired last week.

You guys have been represented by the Teamsters way too long.TC

Sorry, You can't have it both ways, if you realize that NJI was started as a lever against the Teamster Pilots, you can't hold it against us for wanting the unification of the fleets. Going to court under RLA is far from 'hostile.' It's the route we have available to us. As for integration, I don't expect anyone to lose a seat in their GWizz, but new seats would go to NJA via the bidding process.
I can't tell you how many GV owners we fly for their 'short' legs. To claim separate companies is just silly, and they're not 135 flights, they're 91 owner flights using the exchange language in their contract with Netjets, Inc.
We'll see, and soon I think.

 

[gunfyter]

My take is this.

If management does the right thing and corrects the pay situation, fly from home, and a few other issues on our side of the house... Interest in single carrier will be diminished.

If not....

 

[Jack Schitt]

My real position on the subject is that they should have a choice to make up back dues to date of hire and retain the seniority # their date of hire would hold or not pay back dues and get a seniority number based on when they did start paying dues.

I believe that's called extortion. How can you expect an NJI pilot to pay for years of union representation that he did not receive and/or want and/or need? That's just silly. If you buy a new house in a different school district, are you forced to pay back taxes because your neighbor has lived there for 15 years and his money went to fund the new school that you will now enjoy? Think about it.

 

[CE750Driver]

Look, NETJETS can have it one way or another.

Choice A: Keep the G whiz boys seperate and do not let their customers on NJA fleet or visa versa.

Choice B: Integrate the fleets and have, and advertise seemless travel between the fleets like it is now.

Can't legally have it both ways.

 

[Heavy Set]

Look, NETJETS can have it one way or another.

Choice A: Keep the G whiz boys seperate and do not let their customers on NJA fleet or visa versa.

Choice B: Integrate the fleets and have, and advertise seemless travel between the fleets like it is now.

Can't legally have it both ways.

It's already integrated in Europe - everything from Bravos to GIV/GVs...

 

[gunfyter]

If you buy a new house in a different school district, are you forced to pay back taxes because your neighbor has lived there for 15 years and his money went to fund the new school that you will now enjoy?

No but you do not get Seniority over your neighbor either.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

Thanks for reminding me why I never want to be anywhere near anything resembling a labor union again. I had forgotten how everyone wants to leverage the masses to suit their needs. I would ratherr get by on my own merit, skills and knowledge than use the threat of mass action to force someone to submit to my demands. I guess one can get what they want that way, but the price seems a little high to me.

Best of luck in making all this work. I just hope it doesn't become another Eastern.
We don't need another thousand pilots on the street that want to go to work for slave wages to support a faulty business model that then see they made a bad decision and organize to force the company to give them what they didn't have the cajones to demand up front.

 

[CatYaaak]

My real position on the subject is that they should have a choice to make up back dues to date of hire and retain the seniority # their date of hire would hold or not pay back dues and get a seniority number based on when they did start paying dues. That leaves the choice up to them and it doesn't penalize the guys that have been paying dues all along. I imagine somehow AA, you'll still see that as unfair to those poor guys at NJI.
QUOTE]

What a load. Non-union types pay equivalent union dues while working for a closed shop company because they supposedly enjoy the benefit from a collectively-bargained contract and working conditions. In your case, however, the opposite is true...you get paid LESS than those guys, with worse QOL. You're in purely punitive mode. Like I said before..pathetic, smug, union thuggery that does nothing to improve your own sad condition.

Oh well, enjoy your temporary power trip and hope that NJA works out for you, because your attitude sure isn't going to get you hired anywhere else where people actually make a living. The aviation world is pretty small.

 

[Grizz]

The bottom line is that I have no say in this. It is a legal issue under the RLA and this one is as close to a slam dunk as it gets. The NJI guys had to know that when they signed on eventually they would be integrated. The had to realize that the NJA pilots were going to be in the power position when that happened. You can chastise me all you want but as far as I can tell, they made the poor decision to go there.

 

[CatYaaak]

The bottom line is that I have no say in this. It is a legal issue under the RLA and this one is as close to a slam dunk as it gets. The NJI guys had to know that when they signed on eventually they would be integrated. The had to realize that the NJA pilots were going to be in the power position when that happened. You can chastise me all you want but as far as I can tell, they made the poor decision to go there.

Well, if your whole world is viewed through a Union Prizm and nothing else, then it figures that's how you would see any decision. However, if your goal is to go to work as a pilot making a good salary, then there's no doubt which group made the poor decision...the unionized ones not being able to pay the bills locked into a crappy contract vs. the guys who made their own better deal in every respect.

You belong to the first group Griz, like it or not. Someone mentioned cajones before, or lack thereof, when signing on to work for someone offering slave wages then acting like someone "did it to them". If you didn't have any cajones then, no union will grow them for you later. THe only ones fooled into thinking it does are members of the 'Nad-less Choir you're preaching to.

 

[NJA Capt]

Some other things to consider:
To the nay-sayers, should ex NJA pilots that jumped ship to NJI for a BBD be given their original NJA seniority number when re-integrated? No.

Don't be naive that it's only the NJA guys that are salivating (or have something to gain). When NJI thought the G200s were going to Bluffton, I talked to several NJI FOs who were salivating at the chance for a Captains bid in the "smaller" airplane. Upgrades in the GIVs take too long.

Back dues for what? There are several things including their 7/7 schedules that were brought about by our side of the house.

 

[Grizz]

Not to mention the hotel committee - which ensures the quality of hotels they stay in, their current medical benefits, etc.

 

[gunfyter]

Mr Cat,

Let me explain something. IF NJI pilots were stapled to the bottom of the seniority list, what horrible fate would they face?

Right now they have NO possibility of holding any other type but the G-IV/V. Thats the reality today. They are already in the G-IV. They will stay in the G-IV. The only thing that seniority would mean to them is being able to bid the planes currently operated by NJA.

Npw I don't think they should be able to bid the BBJ or SSBJ before I do because if the companys are not merged they would NEVER get to do so anyway.

Nothing bad happens for them.

What happens for us is that the company cannot continue to treat us differently then they treat those in the Gulfstreams.

 

[semperfido]

Right now they have NO possibility of holding any other type but the G-IV/V. Thats the reality today. They are already in the G-IV. They will stay in the G-IV.

A possibility I would like. If I were one of them, that would be fine with me as I would have signed on to fly a g4/g5, not something else. I would be very content to stay in a g4/gv. I would also be discontented if I had to go from a g4/g5 to a cessna or something similar. Why don't you just leave them alone. For all your union talk it sure is funny how you can't wait to screw them over.

 

[650 driver]

I sure enjoy watching all you fractional guys get in these temper rages.

Hopefully you will suceed in driving the company in the ground,So the industry will go back to the way it was and real corporate pilots with real pay, can retain there old jobs back.